Holding tank forward hose 40.5

[SVPardonMyFrench]

Hi All

Finally replacing my holding tank on Pardon My French.

I think we have the work plan figured out with some help from some of you.

Do you know where/how to change the forward head hose?

The hose to the aft head is cracked, so I assume the forward one is as well or will be soon, so now is the time to do it.

any insight very appreciated.

thanks!
Frederick

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

In most cases, the easiest way to replace hoses that go through inaccessible places is to link the new hose to the old and pull it through as you pull out the old. Use a male-male connector...cut the ends of both hoses as cleanly as possible...you want a smooth unbroken surface when you butt them together. Use PVC cement, 5200, superglue--anything that'll hol--to keep the hoses on the fitting...duct tape won't hold, hose clamps can get hung up.
Warming the hoses with a blow dryer or heat gun will make 'em easier to pull off their fittings.

From your photo it appears that you have just one tank under the v-verth for both toilets...which would make the run from the aft head about 4x longer than any marine toilet can move bowl contents without a lot of help from gravity...which means waste is always left sitting in the hose, and waste sitting in hoses can result in stinky hoses. So now would be the best time to add a second tank a lot closer to the aft head.

As for hoses...If you only want to do this job once, hoses are the last place you want to try to cut cost by going with the cheapest, 'cuz cheap sanitation hose will permeate in as little as a month or two. Raritan SaniFlex RaritanSaniFlex hose would be my choice...it's been on the market for about 10 years now without a single reported odor permeation failure, and has the added advantage of being so flexible it can be bent like a hairpin without kinking.

If you'd like to discuss all this in more detail than is practical in a forum, you're welcome to send me a PM...I'll be glad to help you. If you have my book (see link in my signature), you'll find a lot of good information about how to replace toilets, tanks and plumbing in it.

--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

 

[Don Lucas]

use the "good" hose
consider using the "flexible" hose even though I didn't find it more flexible that the black hose
be prepared for the possibly that you may have to cut into a liner etc to gain access

hopefully Hunter didn't zip tie your hose together in a bundle with other hoses when they installed (like they did on my forward head)

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

I had the pleasure of doing that years ago when we had a 40.5.

Between the bends in the path and the rubber ties attaching it to the stringers, it was impossible to pull. We had to remove all the relevant sole plates including part of the port settee. It can be done but it's a lot less frustrating if you bring friends and lots of beer. If you don't use the fwd head, which we never did, it's not worth the effort.

 

[Rich Stidger]

FWIW, I replaced my holding tank and all of the hoses EXCEPT the hose to the forward head. The reason is that the forward head doesn't get very much use and the amount of effort to change was huge. I also didn't detect any odor from that hose so it was optional in my case. I agree with using the best possible hose, and when I changed the tank I had the new on made with a 1" vent connection and I increased the size of the vent accordingly.

 

[HUNTER40.5]

Changed the hoses on Hunter several years ago and then a holding tank several years later. First the hoses:
The aft head hoses are easily done as the run is close and access is good. so I will not discuss it here except to say that you should use the best hose available. I used a trident white head hose. The forward head hose is another story as the run is long and arduous. The trick is to pull the hose from front to rear with a tracer attached at the forward head end. I used a shrink wrap type banding for the tracer as well as the puller. I pulled it through with a line long enough to reach a winch and forced it around the arduous path. The hose passes thru the grid system on starboard after going under the forward water tank. After removal I attached the new hose to the tracer but before that I attached a rubber sleeve to the hose and tracer. I did this to allow the hose to get around the corners. The sleeve was supposed to facilitate this. The only mistake I made was to securely fasten the sleeve to the tracer about a foot or so from the leading hose entrance. The hose came all the way around, front to back, except at the very end when it hung up on the grid exit hole near the holding tank because the sleeve had slipped to the hose in a bunch. At that point I had to drill a hole in the top of the grid to position the hose with sleeve to allow the hose to be pulled that extra foot or so. As I recall this was the only time I needed help. I did the aligning as my son cranked the winch to pull the hose through the exit hole. Heating the hose helps to ease putting the hose on the holding tank fittings.

Holding Tank Replacement: Several years later with a smelly boat I realized that the tank was not being emptied. I finally realized the the pick up tube had developed a hole somewhere upward from the pick up entrance. This only allowed a fraction of the tank to be pumped so there was always a much reduced capacity and of course a lot of residual waste in the tank. I bought a new tank of thick (3/8")polypropylene from a TripleM Plastics in W Kennebunk, Maine found for around $700 (I assume there are other options). The pick up tube is plastic PVC and will not develop a hole in mid section due to corrosion and if your Hunter is 20+ years old with the original holding tank I would suggest it be changed at the time of the hose change. Use 3M 5200 when attaching fittings but make sure you have the correct sizes as the are slightly different and you can mess it up easily.

 

[SVPardonMyFrench]

Changed the hoses on Hunter several years ago and then a holding tank several years later. First the hoses:
The aft head hoses are easily done as the run is close and access is good. so I will not discuss it here except to say that you should use the best hose available. I used a trident white head hose. The forward head hose is another story as the run is long and arduous. The trick is to pull the hose from front to rear with a tracer attached at the forward head end. I used a shrink wrap type banding for the tracer as well as the puller. I pulled it through with a line long enough to reach a winch and forced it around the arduous path. The hose passes thru the grid system on starboard after going under the forward water tank. After removal I attached the new hose to the tracer but before that I attached a rubber sleeve to the hose and tracer. I did this to allow the hose to get around the corners. The sleeve was supposed to facilitate this. The only mistake I made was to securely fasten the sleeve to the tracer about a foot or so from the leading hose entrance. The hose came all the way around, front to back, except at the very end when it hung up on the grid exit hole near the holding tank because the sleeve had slipped to the hose in a bunch. At that point I had to drill a hole in the top of the grid to position the hose with sleeve to allow the hose to be pulled that extra foot or so. As I recall this was the only time I needed help. I did the aligning as my son cranked the winch to pull the hose through the exit hole. Heating the hose helps to ease putting the hose on the holding tank fittings.

Holding Tank Replacement: Several years later with a smelly boat I realized that the tank was not being emptied. I finally realized the the pick up tube had developed a hole somewhere upward from the pick up entrance. This only allowed a fraction of the tank to be pumped so there was always a much reduced capacity and of course a lot of residual waste in the tank. I bought a new tank of thick (3/8")polypropylene from a TripleM Plastics in W Kennebunk, Maine found for around $700 (I assume there are other options). The pick up tube is plastic PVC and will not develop a hole in mid section due to corrosion and if your Hunter is 20+ years old with the original holding tank I would suggest it be changed at the time of the hose change. Use 3M 5200 when attaching fittings but make sure you have the correct sizes as the are slightly different and you can mess it up easily.

thank you!!!!!

 

[SVPardonMyFrench]

Thanks all for the replies, they are very appreciated! The tank is replaced!.

After careful inspection, I decided not to change the forward hose. Not really a shortcut, the forward head is lightly used and the hose appears odorless front and back. The aft one tho was cracked (!!!). The rest of the project went according to plan. I think I had the same issue as HU40.5 with the tank not being emptied at pump outs. As you can imagine I thoroughly cleaned and emptied the tank before removal... only to find it was not empty when we lifted it out. Disaster was averted but there was a bunch of stuff still remaining in there. We also found out that the vent was completely clogged. I used the common TripleM replacement, Trident sanitary hoses, the fittings from Fisheries Supply in Seattle, and a SCAD tank monitor (we'll see how that works). It took about 8 hours to complete the project with two people. Amazing how quickly the odor disappeared. Very happy to be part of a graduate for the holding tank project. Thanks again for all the tips. Feel free to PM if you have questions.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Use 3M 5200 when attaching fittings

Sorry, bad advice. Assuming that you're referring to installing female fittings in the tank 5200 is the last thing you'd want to use, especially if the tank is PE, which 99% of 'em are 'cuz neither 5200 nor any other sealant or "glue" will bond permanently to PE. And while it may be "permanent" on other materials, it can--and will--leak. But it shouldn't be necessary to install fittings. Ronco Plastics, Triple M and other tank mfrs install tank fittings in the sizes and locations specified by the customer when they make the tank. There are people who order "blanks" and install fittings themselves, but using anything except a Uniseal UNISEAL is doing it the hard way.

--Peggie

 

[Don Lucas]

The light use of the forward head doesn't mean it wouldn't go bad. The original owner of my boat said they never used it and I barely used it the first year. The second year the hose went so bad it chased us off the boat. And yes, it was terrible to try to replace due to the zip ties. So if you aren't going to replace those flush it out REAL good and never put that pink antifreeze in it.

 

[Rick D]

The light use of the forward head doesn't mean it wouldn't go bad. The original owner of my boat said they never used it and I barely used it the first year. The second year the hose went so bad it chased us off the boat. And yes, it was terrible to try to replace due to the zip ties. So if you aren't going to replace those flush it out REAL good and never put that pink antifreeze in it.

Interesting. 25 years and no hose smell from the forward hose (aft changed). It does get little use and is fully flushed with fresh water whenever we have guests leave. I suspect climate and many other factors are involved. BTW, the drawers under the V berth are removed and the space they occupied is now my tool and spares area and is closed by louvered doors. So, the hose is right there and I would know if there was a hint of smell!

 

[HUNTER40.5]

The tripple M tank is made of polypropylene with threaded female connections for the PVC pipe that the hoses are attached to. I did several trials to make sure that threaded connection was leakproof by filling the tank with water. It leaked maybe because I cross threaded the PVC threaded male into the tank or a bad thread. In any case after cleaning and applying the 5200 I have not had a leak in 5-7 years when the job was done. If it had been leakproof I probably would not have put the 5200 on the thread but at this point Happy it was applied.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

When I got a replacement tank from TripleM, it had no fittings intentionally omitted to facilitate installation. I used 5200 simply because that was the only stuff I had at the time and didn't want to bother shopping. It held fine with no leaks during pressure testing so I wouldn't be too finicky about it.

 

[SVPardonMyFrench]

The light use of the forward head doesn't mean it wouldn't go bad. The original owner of my boat said they never used it and I barely used it the first year. The second year the hose went so bad it chased us off the boat. And yes, it was terrible to try to replace due to the zip ties. So if you aren't going to replace those flush it out REAL good and never put that pink antifreeze in it.

Thanks Don. If I need to replace it I will. We've scoped it out, and it appears pretty doable....