HIN - Follow Up

[Flamingo1]

I felt bad about hijacking another thread to discuss hull numbers (again), but wanted to provide an update regarding the mystery that is my HIN.

I was at the lake (storage yard) on Saturday, working on my boat and had every intention of snapping a picture of my HIN. Before that, I wanted to remove my motor mount, epoxy the holes and install a layer of FRP to the stern (where it appears there have been at least 3 motor mount installations previously). As happens, another sailor stopped by to chat before I could make much headway. After a brief 20 minute chat, I removed the motor mount and mixed the epoxy while taking notice of the ominous clouds building to the south. I pressed the epoxy into the motor mount bracket holes and periodically looked up to watch the clouds move closer - and made sure there was no lightning. As I was filling the last hole, I could hear the distant rumble of thunder even though my head was in the port locker. That caused me to quickly pack up and close up all of the hatches and get off the boat as quickly as possible. Just as I was stepping off the ladder, a huge gust of wind and a whirlwind of sand, dust and trash crossed the dry storage yard about 30 feet from me - right over the top of some other folks who were just backing their sailboat into its stall.

The point is, I ran before I could get a picture. I don't regret my choice.

I did find the attached (which was taken before I painted Ole Butterscotch) which shows the metal plate that is located on the starboard side of the stern just below the rub rail. That plate has the AZZ6753NJ272 number inscribed on it. It is not etched into the fiberglass. Strange.

 

[Benny17441]

That is an Arizona Homemade Boat registration plate indicating it was a homemade boat manufactured in 1972. Apparently that tag may have been issued for another boat and transferred to the Catalina which may have had a title problem. The officers at the DMV were pretty thorough at the time so I doubt the Catalina was directly registered as a homemade. Did you get a title with the boat?

 

[Capt jgw]

HIN issued by the state, not necessarily home built. I'm not familiar with Arizona specific rules, but it could have been a salvage, lost title and HIN, etc. Maybe someone restored it and thought they put in more than they started with, making it an "assembled" boat. The state doesn't check what you started out with or ended up with, they just check your receipts to see you paid sales tax on everything.

 

[pclarksurf]

Definitely not Catalina factory-- here is a shot of mine just below the rail on the starboard side of the stern. Very very faint-- took multiple pictures in order to convince WA state DMV that they had the wrong HIN on my title (which they corrected with this evidence....)

 

[Flamingo1]

Wow - pclarksurf - that is very faint. I may have painted over mine without knowing it was there or it may have been sanded away before I came along.

In Arizona, we do not get a "title" for the boat, but you do register it with the Department of Game and Fish (or is it Fish and Game??). I received that registration and had no issues transferring the boat into my name. The registration correctly shows the boat as a 1972 Catalina.

It is very strange that someone would go to the trouble of having a metal plate engraved with this number. The engraved plate matches what they show as hull id# on the registration - and then my registration number which is required to be shown on the bow of the boat is AZ 6753 BN. That tracks a portion of the hull number.

No big issue, but it would be interesting to know where my boat fell in the overall production. It's sort of like adopting an older dog and never really knowing where it spent its first and formative years.

 

[RussC]

I wonder if there's a molded in number under that metal tag, and if so, does it match the numbers on the tag.

 

[Benny17441]

IsQuestion
What is a hull identification number?
Answer
A hull identification number (or HIN) means a number assigned to specific watercraft by the manufacturer or by a government jurisdiction as prescribed by the U.S. Coast Guard. It is similar to a car's vehicle identification number. All watercraft manufactured after August 1972 are required by federal law to have a 12 digit HIN. your watercraft will require inspection if it is homemade or newer than the 1972 and does not have a conforming HIN number.

This is an excerpt from the Q&A Arizona Game and Fish Dept. web page.

https://www.azgfd.com/boating/registrationfaqs/

 

[CaptDon01]

Depending on the year of your boat, there might also be a hidden HIN on a piece of paper with clear resin painted over it from the factory. You really have to look for it under various parts of the liner. Best using a flashlight and a mirror. If I remember correctly, on my 1980 boat, it was under the liner in the V-berth area. On my MK-II, it's hidden up under the companionway.

Don

 

[Jacktar]

To clarify the homemade issue with the Arizona number, In Florida if they cannot find a HIN they will send out an inspector from fish and game and he will create one, and he uses the homemade prefix letters . That is what my title says although they know its a production hull and Catalina gave me its recorded HIN , but Tax collector here says no good unless a inspector can locate the real number on the boat it stays what is now.

 

[Flamingo1]

The response I received from Catalina 22 National Association regarding my hull number is as follows.

Included in this email is a copy of the Catalina history. On page 40 you will find the year your boat was manufactured. The Hull # is not so unique and should match the sail # on your sails. I believe your # is 753. But also may be 675. Your’s is a little odd due to the AZZ, but other than that the number/letters follow correctly. The AZZ is representative of the manufacturer and usually CTYH for Catalina Yachts. The next 3-4 numbers are the hull #; followed by the location of the plant where it was built and the last 3-4 are the month and year built.

So I'm either 675 or 753. Ole Butterscotch was built in February 1972.

 

[jepomer]

AZZ is the manufacturer id for the State of Arizona.

http://uscgboating.org/content/manufacturers-identification-result2.php

The response I received from Catalina 22 National Association regarding my hull number is as follows.

Included in this email is a copy of the Catalina history. On page 40 you will find the year your boat was manufactured. The Hull # is not so unique and should match the sail # on your sails. I believe your # is 753. But also may be 675. Your’s is a little odd due to the AZZ, but other than that the number/letters follow correctly. The AZZ is representative of the manufacturer and usually CTYH for Catalina Yachts. The next 3-4 numbers are the hull #; followed by the location of the plant where it was built and the last 3-4 are the month and year built.

So I'm either 675 or 753. Ole Butterscotch was built in February 1972.

 

[Capt jgw]

Interesting that the rest of the numbers are correct for a manufacturer issued HIN. Must be a salvage or something similar. If they knew the original number they would not have changed the prefix otherwise.

 

[woodster]

that azz may be a reissue number from the state of arizona ...i have seen this happen before by the salvage company i used to be affiliated with

 

[Flamingo1]

So, I was doing more research on-line with respect to hull numbers. According to the National Association, the first hull number of 1972 was 804 and the first hull number of 1973 was 1912.

So, I wrote back to the Catalina National Association and inquired as to how my boat is either hull 675 or 753 if it is truly a 1972. The response makes sense.

Dora (Secretary of the National Association) said that her boat is a 1996 - it was purchased in January 1996 but that means that it was actually manufactured in 1995. The year of the boat, to some degree, depends on when it was shipped to the dealer. There was likely less demand for the fixed keel boats than the swing keel boats - so it is possible that it was built as hull 675 or 753 in 1975 and was not shipped to a dealer until 1972.

The only part of this explanation that I still find troublesome is the last part of my hull number is 272 - which was supposed to indicate February 1972. Would that not be the manufactured date - and not the shipped to dealer date? I haven't asked that question yet.

I raised the possibility of this being a salvage number also and Dora stated that is also a possibility. According to Dora, there are a couple of other possible places (beyond the inscription in the customary location on the transom) where the original hull number may be inscribed and those are:

1. a metal plate just under the tiller; and
2. in the forward locker looking back toward the stern.

She stated that you almost have to stand on your head to see this one - so I am going to give that a shot this weekend. I will be doing some headstands to see if I can find an original hull ID number.