Does anyone have any recommendations for how to get out of a slip in high winds when sailing alone?
High Winds
- Thread starter Wkemple
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I'm assuming you are not trying to sail out. that is significantly harder and most marinas discourage the use of sails. if motoring I have found that long dock lines to the bow are handy. You can cast off the down wind lines first and single up on the upwind ones. if you can cast off the remaining stern then "let go the bow" from the cockpit as you begine to motor out all you have to watch for is getting the line wraped inthe prop shaft as the stern passes. I have found that bumper strips on the toe rail are useful also as you can just rub your way out to the fairway.
Don't forget that with the motor in forward you can get good rudder control by blipping the throttel with the helm hard over the way you want to kick the stern. this does not work in reverse however.
It is all about having a plan.
Don't forget that with the motor in forward you can get good rudder control by blipping the throttel with the helm hard over the way you want to kick the stern. this does not work in reverse however.
It is all about having a plan.
A lot of variables here. Look at this website for some ideas: http://www.cruising.sailingcourse.com/docking.htm or You may want to consider rigging a bridle at your dock assuming you return to the same dock after each sail. SC
Correct, motoring out. Wind strength of 25 to 30 and directly across the beam. It is a single boat slip.
It isn't easy. Getting yourself on the windward side of the slip and staying there until you start to move is very important, but not too long or the bow will blow off to leeward. Consider a very long temporary line from the bow you can cast off from the cockpit.
One story, funny now, not so much then. 25-30 knots beam to. I was backing out under hard throttle using prop walk to get the stern over. My daughter was on the dock. I told her to get aboard. She did not, being afraid the bow was going to hit the dock. Anyhow, I looked back, swung the stern over, and looked forward. No daughter. I looked in the water to be sure she had not fallen in, but not there. I assumed she had gone to the end of the finger to catch a ride and proceeded forward. A dinghy came by to tell me someone was hanging from the anchor horns! I asked him to pick her up while I kept just enough speed on for steerage. He brought her to the stern and she climbed on, wet and scared. Seems she thought she could swing up on deck. Of course, she couldn't and I could neither see nor hear her on the bow. Close call!
One story, funny now, not so much then. 25-30 knots beam to. I was backing out under hard throttle using prop walk to get the stern over. My daughter was on the dock. I told her to get aboard. She did not, being afraid the bow was going to hit the dock. Anyhow, I looked back, swung the stern over, and looked forward. No daughter. I looked in the water to be sure she had not fallen in, but not there. I assumed she had gone to the end of the finger to catch a ride and proceeded forward. A dinghy came by to tell me someone was hanging from the anchor horns! I asked him to pick her up while I kept just enough speed on for steerage. He brought her to the stern and she climbed on, wet and scared. Seems she thought she could swing up on deck. Of course, she couldn't and I could neither see nor hear her on the bow. Close call!
The best way in my opinion is to back up against the wind (as you're leaving your slip and afterward) until you hit the open fairway where you have lots of room to swing the bow toward the wind, and go forward. The difficulty of doing this will depend on whether you have a fin keel and spade rudder, versus a full keel w/ an attached rudder, and whether or not the boat backs initially toward the open fairway (upwind) or away from it. If the boat backs initially toward the open fairway (upwind), then you will be able to leave your slip with the bow sliding along the leeward slip fenders until you're out, then you power backward against wind. If the boat initially backs away from the open fairway, you will need some kind of line attached to the upwind dock cleat with which you can physically pull your stern to windward to get it going in that direction as you leave the slip, and then cast it off of the dock, and back up to the fairway as described above.
Like Wekemple, I'd like to know how you do it....single handed, 30 mph or kts, crosswind, 38 foot boat, fin keel? My boat is smaller....I can't do it. A bigger boat is harder to handle. Backing a fin keel boat from essentially dead in the water into 30 kts.? I think what is going to happen is that the wind is going to take charge, the prop walk is going to walk stern around to one side regardless of where the rudder is, the wind will then catch the boat and spin you around out of control, and probably down on adjacent boats or piers. If you are already backing at good speed and then turn upwind, you may be able to back against the wind, but this is not what you have when leaving the dock. If there is any wave action, the waves will be hitting the broad stern hard, trying to kill whatever stern way you have. But from standing still, I don't think you can back upwind in 30 kts. And you'll have similar challenges going ahead in such crosswinds from a standstill position, but assuming you have sufficient open water, you'll be able to regain control easier going forward because of rudder position relative to prop wash. I also use long lines to tend my bow, but in 30 kts. crosswind, I can't hold it....of course, you can snub the lines on a winch or cleat and perhaps overcome that hurtle. With my boat, and I suspect with boats in 38-40 ft. range, that crosswind is going to sweep you down on the leeward finger pier, piling, or adjacent boat in an instant. To me, at least, dragging the boat down against the pier is unacceptable and seems a good way to damage something.
I'm a fair weather sailer, probably not very good, even after many years. But at my marina, there are people who have crossed oceans, and lived the long range cruising life for years. And they don't go when the wind is blowing 30 kts., crosswind at the "dock". I hear lots of people say they go out in such conditions, but usually, I find that the pier where the boat is berthed is sheltered from such winds. But if you really have 30 kts. crosswind at the pier, maybe it's best to sail another day.
And if you get away, then there's the problem of docking in the same 30 kt. crosswind, which will be equally challenging, maybe more so.
Not trying to pick a fight, or cause trouble, but I don't believe it is done in real life. I've looked for videos showing docking/undocking in such conditions. I have yet to see one, even with all the schools and "YouTube" photographers. Can anyone point me to such videos? And if it is done, I'd really like to see it....I could learn a lot.
I'm a fair weather sailer, probably not very good, even after many years. But at my marina, there are people who have crossed oceans, and lived the long range cruising life for years. And they don't go when the wind is blowing 30 kts., crosswind at the "dock". I hear lots of people say they go out in such conditions, but usually, I find that the pier where the boat is berthed is sheltered from such winds. But if you really have 30 kts. crosswind at the pier, maybe it's best to sail another day.
And if you get away, then there's the problem of docking in the same 30 kt. crosswind, which will be equally challenging, maybe more so.
Not trying to pick a fight, or cause trouble, but I don't believe it is done in real life. I've looked for videos showing docking/undocking in such conditions. I have yet to see one, even with all the schools and "YouTube" photographers. Can anyone point me to such videos? And if it is done, I'd really like to see it....I could learn a lot.
I didn't say I had done it in 30 kt; maybe 25 kt a couple of times, usually much less. But if you're going to do it, or have a good chance of doing it, you'll have to back up, into the wind, to the fairway. There's no hope at all of getting enough way on, in my opinion, to swing the bow into the wind coming out of the slip without fouling something in the space that most marinas give you between gangways, especially if you're single handing the boat--not getting any help. The bow is going to be facing down wind anyway b/c that is where it will blow to as you clear. I'm jaded perhaps. The Bavaria 38 (my boat) having sail drive, fin keel, and spade rudder, will, I'm almost certain, back up straight into 30 kt under the power that the 39 hp Yanmar can deliver. But maybe, I'd collapse my dodger and bimini first.
what do I tie the camera to...........
my hands are full with a spring line, a long bowline, the throttle and the wheel, not much space for a camera.........maybe a helmet cam,
seriously,
Back in and out, build up a good flow of water across the rudder and keel before you let loose of those lines, makes departure much much easier, keep that rudder straight and use twice as much throttle as you thought you would need,
and remember, you only have one chance at a smooth departure once that line is released. I keep the smooth tail of the mooring line tensioned on the aft cleat, and have to pick it out of the water as it falls around the dock cleat.
( you have to wait a bit to pick it off the dock , and concrete docks snag the goldbraid really harshly)
not for the faint of heart.
And yes, it is long enough to foul the prop, But I also have a long line from the stern to the outer end dock cleat, that allows me to push the boat a little way out, turn 90 to straight downwind and then back upwind along the fairway.
looks scary but has good control, and in our marina, there is not much waves in the fairway action so we can still back the boat in 30 kts of wind
I dont know if I would try it with waves slamming the back of the boat, When I practice MOB drills........I find the cockpit rather "green" when we back down and try to fish that cushion back in.
my hands are full with a spring line, a long bowline, the throttle and the wheel, not much space for a camera.........maybe a helmet cam,
seriously,
Back in and out, build up a good flow of water across the rudder and keel before you let loose of those lines, makes departure much much easier, keep that rudder straight and use twice as much throttle as you thought you would need,
and remember, you only have one chance at a smooth departure once that line is released. I keep the smooth tail of the mooring line tensioned on the aft cleat, and have to pick it out of the water as it falls around the dock cleat.
( you have to wait a bit to pick it off the dock , and concrete docks snag the goldbraid really harshly)
not for the faint of heart.
And yes, it is long enough to foul the prop, But I also have a long line from the stern to the outer end dock cleat, that allows me to push the boat a little way out, turn 90 to straight downwind and then back upwind along the fairway.
looks scary but has good control, and in our marina, there is not much waves in the fairway action so we can still back the boat in 30 kts of wind
I dont know if I would try it with waves slamming the back of the boat, When I practice MOB drills........I find the cockpit rather "green" when we back down and try to fish that cushion back in.
In my own situation, I frequently have much lower crosswinds that still give me lots of trouble...I singlehand also. On the issue of backing from a standstill into the wind, I can only relate results of a test I ran along these lines. With the wind blowing much less, I took the boat out into open water along side a marker piling and tried to hold my stern in position beside the marker. The boat is moving only due to wind sweeping it downwind. Increase the throttle to try to hold position, and the wind negates the reverse element of motion, leaving only prop walk to the side. Incease the trottle, and the boat walks more to the side, and eventually under a combination of prop walk and wind, the boat takes a beam to wind attitude and is swept downwind. When I tried to back upwind from this position, the same thing happened, only quicker since I was using mor throttle. On the other hand, going forward, holding position next to the marker was easy, because prop wash against the rudder gave it more control, so I could overcome any tendency for bow to fall off. When I then started to back the boat more or less crosswind (in this case, I was going crosswind, but with the open space, it was not important where the boat was actually drifting while I gained sternway...different from when you are leaving the pier) and got it moving (good water flow across the rudder, equals good control), I could do tight figure 8's and back upwind with little problem. But from a standstill, the boat would not do it. Maybe my boat is different for others. And if your propwalk will carry your stern upwind, get ready for another surprise. I did this on Memorial Day in front of a good size audience on the pier (they were there to watch a fireworks display). The crosswind wants to blow the bow downwind until a beam to wind attitude is reached, and the prop is trying to walk the stern upwind. That combination will overcome any rudder control and spin the boat around quickly in a full circle before you can regain control....it happens very quickly, believe me.
As to long lines in the water, this is a problem. If you have crew, they can take in the lines, but in most narrow fairways, a singlehander must take in his own lines and while he's doing this, the boat is being swept somewhere, probably not where you want to go. Towards this end, I special ordered a pair of long "float" lines from West Marine on special order. These lines (somewhat expensive) float so as to reduce the possibility of fouling the prop if I didn't get lines in quick enough. What I ordered was Samson MFP.
On the video, I agree that singlehanders don't have time to deal with it. But all these sailing schools and book authors tell you how to do certain things, but their real time illustrations are never in the high wind conditions. And even if you have crew, lots of crew, 30 kt. crosswind departures would be impressive to capture on film.....maybe some one on this forum can make such a video ....take along a camerman to film the event.
As to long lines in the water, this is a problem. If you have crew, they can take in the lines, but in most narrow fairways, a singlehander must take in his own lines and while he's doing this, the boat is being swept somewhere, probably not where you want to go. Towards this end, I special ordered a pair of long "float" lines from West Marine on special order. These lines (somewhat expensive) float so as to reduce the possibility of fouling the prop if I didn't get lines in quick enough. What I ordered was Samson MFP.
On the video, I agree that singlehanders don't have time to deal with it. But all these sailing schools and book authors tell you how to do certain things, but their real time illustrations are never in the high wind conditions. And even if you have crew, lots of crew, 30 kt. crosswind departures would be impressive to capture on film.....maybe some one on this forum can make such a video ....take along a camerman to film the event.
If it's 30kts I stay in the slip and watch a ballgame, not gonna play what-if in that kind of condition.
It's not a sailboat, and it's docking instead of undocking, but this kind of illustrates the crosswind problem and the resulting movement of the boat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fly2vEpJl1I
and this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ELrAoXxWI8&feature=related
and by definition you'll be by yourself, and the boat and forces are higher.
And here's a sailboat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCuzv7cer04&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fly2vEpJl1I
and this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ELrAoXxWI8&feature=related
and by definition you'll be by yourself, and the boat and forces are higher.
And here's a sailboat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCuzv7cer04&feature=related
In normal crosswinds, walking the boat out is certainly possible. In 30 kts. with a 38-40 ft. boat might be another thing. In the last of the three videos, the sailboat is roughly 40 ft. and winds are reported somewhat higher, but notice the number of people it took to swing the stern into the dock after the bow was hooked up.
Also, in high winds, with only one person, walking the boat down the dock might not be a good idea. What happens if the lines get away from the singlehander? The boat could come to rest against the leeward side of the slip, or worse, work it's way out of the slip with no one on board.
Thanks for the responses! I am normally stern in and my dock is completely padded. The few times I have taken it out in high winds I do walk it forward about half way but end up against the leeward side of the slip. When done I am bow in as backing in was just too difficult. I have yet to back out in high wind which prompted the question. I'm considering bow thrusters but realize that is not being a minimalist.
I don't know if you turn upwind or downwind after you back out of the slip, but I'll look at downwind first. For example, if you have wind on your port beam (bow in), the only dockline you'll need before you cast off, is the stern. The wind will keep the bow blowing to starboard (leaward). I used to have this exact situation. I have the stern line wrapped around the cleat and fed back to the boat, so I can release it from the cockpit. As long as you wish to turn to the right after you back out (the stern will be backing left), the boat will back easily into the wind, with the bow now downwind.
Now if you have the above wind situation and you need to turn to the left (upwind) after backing out, that's going to be tough. Which way does the wind blow and which way do you need to turn?
Now if you have the above wind situation and you need to turn to the left (upwind) after backing out, that's going to be tough. Which way does the wind blow and which way do you need to turn?
It can be both up and downwind. The prevailing wind is out of the South and in that case i would be turning downwind.
If you are turning downwind "after" you back out of the slip, the wind will do much of the work for you. So, I'm assuming that if the wind is out of the South, your boat (bow in) is faciing West, and that after you back out, you'll be heading downwind (North).
Is the above correct?
Is the above correct?
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