High Seas Home Depot

Nov 24, 2014
159
Catalina 310 Staten Island
While the manufacturers and sellers of products labeled as marine grade would love you to think that they are the only way to go, most of us, whether due to cost or convenience, have gone the "Home Depot" route, and bought lubricants, varnishes, fasteners, cleaners, as well as mechanical or electrical components from nearby Hardware or Auto stores. I would love to see a section in Sailboatowners.com dedicated to comparing the price and effectiveness to those found at West Marine or online Marine suppliers. Any thoughts on the matter?
 
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dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
3,373
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
Very hard to keep up-to-date. it would be useful for a very short length of time as a parts list. I think better would be to have discussions around what makes something "marine" grade, and how one can look for how to "marinize" non-marine grade items. Just my 2 cents worth.

dj
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,323
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Sourcing quality products at a reasonable price often appears on SBO. Last Fall there was a discussion about it and the CEO of Defender.com weighed in on the conversation. More recently there was a discussion about heat shrink solder connections (a terrible product) online. Practical Sailor magazine often reviews both DIY solutions, HW store solutions, and marine solutions and they do a good job. One of their editors frequents SBO and offers greater insight.

SBO forums are financially supported by the SBO store and they have been very tolerant of the above discussions and have not moved to quell them, even when posters point to competitors. They also try to price products competitively with the larger businesses. It might be a bit "in your face" to sanction the kind of board you are suggesting. I would not be willing to support such a permanent fixture on SBO. Although, I have and do suggest sources and products from suppliers other than SBO.

You are correct, sometimes HW store alternatives are just fine. One product that comes to mind is the Loctite brand of sealants. P-S has reviewed them and in many cases they are a good alternative to name brand marine products. In other cases HW products in some specific applications are fine while in other cases, not so much.

I think it is best to let folks post their specific questions about products and sources in any of the relevant existing forums.
 
Mar 29, 2017
576
Hunter 30t 9805 littlecreek
Take a magnet into hardware store if u plan on buying fasteners. Good grade stainless is not magnetic
 
Nov 24, 2014
159
Catalina 310 Staten Island
Very hard to keep up-to-date. it would be useful for a very short length of time as a parts list. I think better would be to have discussions around what makes something "marine" grade, and how one can look for how to "marinize" non-marine grade items. Just my 2 cents worth.

dj
IMHO, the place where it is riskiest to substitute might be electrical wiring and components, due in part to the risk of corrosion. In some cases, it could be a fire/explosion hazard. When I took the USCG auxiliary safety course, our instructor warned of such dangers if one substituted an automobile grade alternator for one certified for marine use, even if the size and capacity were an exact fit. This certainly makes sense on a gasoline inboard or I/O engine. I don't think it would pose a problem with a diesel engine as the vapors are much less volatile. In the cases of varnishes, sealants, and lubricants, they are sometimes "marinized" by having the manufacturer or distributor change the labeling, packaging, and price.
 
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Nov 24, 2014
159
Catalina 310 Staten Island
Sourcing quality products at a reasonable price often appears on SBO. Last Fall there was a discussion about it and the CEO of Defender.com weighed in on the conversation. More recently there was a discussion about heat shrink solder connections (a terrible product) online. Practical Sailor magazine often reviews both DIY solutions, HW store solutions, and marine solutions and they do a good job. One of their editors frequents SBO and offers greater insight.

SBO forums are financially supported by the SBO store and they have been very tolerant of the above discussions and have not moved to quell them, even when posters point to competitors. They also try to price products competitively with the larger businesses. It might be a bit "in your face" to sanction the kind of board you are suggesting. I would not be willing to support such a permanent fixture on SBO. Although, I have and do suggest sources and products from suppliers other than SBO.

You are correct, sometimes HW store alternatives are just fine. One product that comes to mind is the Loctite brand of sealants. P-S has reviewed them and in many cases they are a good alternative to name brand marine products. In other cases HW products in some specific applications are fine while in other cases, not so much.

I think it is best to let folks post their specific questions about products and sources in any of the relevant existing forums.
Now I see why the marina in Staten Island where I used to keep my boat, removed all of the gas barbecues shortly after opening an on site restaurant
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
3,373
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
Take a magnet into hardware store if u plan on buying fasteners. Good grade stainless is not magnetic
This is a common misunderstanding. 303 stainless steel can be as non-magnetic as a 304 or 316, and both 304 and 316 can be highly magnetic if they have been cold worked which may be highly desirable for strength. With all due respect, I hear this frequently and it is not an adequate test.

dj
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,323
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
This is a common misunderstanding. 303 stainless steel can be as non-magnetic as a 304 or 316, and both 304 and 316 can be highly magnetic if they have been cold worked which may be highly desirable for strength. With all due respect, I hear this frequently and it is not an adequate test.

dj
Cold working and becoming magnetized is why the local scrap yard won't give me the 316 price when I recycle old rigging. There is a little bit of magnetic attraction to the rigging when it is 20 years old.
 
Nov 24, 2014
159
Catalina 310 Staten Island
Cold working and becoming magnetized is why the local scrap yard won't give me the 316 price when I recycle old rigging. There is a little bit of magnetic attraction to the rigging when it is 20 years old.
While I have little knowledge of metal recycling, I somehow suspect that steel cable is harder to recycle than sheet metal, rebar, or girders
 

capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
One of the places 'marine' quality shows up to me is in electrical products. For instance, tinned Ancor boat wire and cable, at whatever price, is well worth it over straight copper wire or welding cable, IMO. Mass marketing outlets can't supply electrical parts of any kind that will do the job for any length of time in the salt water environment.
However, thanks to the internet, an industrious shopper today can find exactly the same quality parts and equipment in other industries that are much cheaper than 'marine' parts. One of the best sources with a huge market, unlike the tiny marine market, is the food service industry for everything from SS sheeting to saltwater proof pumps.
And then up pops something like Easy Gardener Sun Screen fabric at Home Depot, which makes the best, longest lasting awnings on a boat I've ever seen. Absolutely incredible stuff! And the outdoor furniture cushions and pillows are coated with something that keeps them clean, dry and mold and mildew free for years! Nothing in the marine market comes close. Too bad they are generally so dam ugly!
So, I certainly can't say everything from those stores has no place on a boat.
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
3,373
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
Cold working and becoming magnetized is why the local scrap yard won't give me the 316 price when I recycle old rigging. There is a little bit of magnetic attraction to the rigging when it is 20 years old.
Your rigging may or may not be 316 stainless steel. But if it is, then you need to have a scrap yard test it with a metal monitor and that will show if it is 316 or not. 316 contains Mo, unique within these families of stainless steels. Molybdenum is what provides pitting corrosion resistance in chloride environments for the austenitic alloy family. That gets picked up in a metal monitor easily. (there are other austenitic alloys with Mo, but none that are used in the marine industry that I'm aware of anyway).

The magnetic attraction is not likely related to age, that cable was more likely cold worked during manufacture to increase the mechanical properties of the cable. Doing that, also makes the material more magnetic, so to speak. Your cable was likely magnetic when you installed it.

dj
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
3,373
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
One of the places 'marine' quality shows up to me is in electrical products. For instance, tinned Ancor boat wire and cable, at whatever price, is well worth it over straight copper wire or welding cable,
Really important in wire is not the tinned wire, but the insulation used on the wire. The wire you mention (I haven't looked it up directly) I imagine has excellent insulation which is really the main concern with wire. Copper wire with the same insulation will also give excellent results in the marine environment.

dj
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,401
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
Home Depot sells Gardner Bender tin plated copper wire fittings. I have used these for many years and subjected over 100 of them to 6 months in a salt spray cabinet (wet/dry/wet cycles 4 times a day) as part of a test protecol. They didn't have a mark on them. You can get heat shrink fittings or, as I prefer, slide the heat shrink tube on after crimping.

Deck screws are generally 304 or 302 and won't hold up very well. Most of the other nuts and bolts seem to be 316, or rather, I can't recall serious corrosion problems. The purple 3M sandpaper is top notch in testing. I find the best paint brushes at a real paint store, but the cheapest disposable chip brushes come from Michael's. Cheap bungee cords are just that. Locktite PLS40 is a bargain polyurethane sealant that I have been using for 15 years.

You just need to keep your eyes open.
 

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
3,373
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
Deck screws are generally 304 or 302 and won't hold up very well.
I believe they are actually 303, but the rest of what you said is spot on... 303 is a free machining austenitic alloy containing higher levels of sulfur which is what makes them free machining. That alloy does not hold up in the marine environment well, works in fresh water, but certainly not salt water...

dj
 

capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
Really important in wire is not the tinned wire, but the insulation used on the wire. The wire you mention (I haven't looked it up directly) I imagine has excellent insulation which is really the main concern with wire. Copper wire with the same insulation will also give excellent results in the marine environment.

dj
I'm sorry, but I'd have to disagree with that. Tinned wire tends to corrode less and therefor crimp connections last longer and are more secure.
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
3,373
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
The connectors are a totally different subject. You need to be sure to use water proof heat shrink on the connections. If you don't do that, then I'll agree with you, the tinned wire may be better. But if you use water proof connectors, then it is not a problem. The real issue is the insulation of the wire. If you open up that insulation on the ends, as I believe you are suggesting, then you are opening up an avenue for corrosion to enter the wire. Keep all connections water proof and the wire with proper insulation, and you don't need tinned wire.

dj