Do modern type, light displacement; high freeboard boats have a unique safety characteristic? To explain: On You Tube, in the middle of a clip of some racing is a cockpit video of a 30-35 ft high freeboard modern production boat, close hauled, reefed, in considerable wind and wave, with 25+ heel, it hits a wave and maybe a gust. In an instant, it’s pushed right down. The next instant it pops back up and keeps sailing. No lengthy down time, no roundup, no apparent course or sail trim change. Is this action something to do with high freeboard reserve buoyancy or can most boats be expected to act like this? Except for cabin redecoration and sliding off the temporarily vertical deck. Can we do this with boats of this type without worrying too much about it? you tube- LUMPi - Sailing Team Bizzone.
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I wouldn't try that with the admiral on board
Probably be the last time I could ever get her on the boat. Awesome video though - makes me feel a little more comfortable about the capabilities of my 36' Hunter though I don't think I'd want to try it.
Probably be the last time I could ever get her on the boat. Awesome video though - makes me feel a little more comfortable about the capabilities of my 36' Hunter though I don't think I'd want to try it.
05H36 Knockdown experience
Hal - I had an experience in my 05H36 with a downdraft from a summer thunderstorm that led me to that same conclusion. When coming back from the Isles of Shoals one summer day a couple of years ago, I saw a big, black Tstorm coming offshore to meet me. It had heavy rainfall lines descending at its sides and was a more solid yellow on my RADAR screen than the shoreline, so I 3-reefed my mainsail and partially furled the jib. As it hit, Persephone was doing rather well by my feathering her into and slightly off the wind as it passed 48kts true on my ST60 Wind in a soaking deluge that made it hard to see the jib. Then, a wild shift in wind direction and increase in velocity - most likely from a downdraft - backed the jib, rapidly spun her broadside and pinned her. My inclinometer only reads to 60 degrees, but I estimate the angle at which she was pinned to be 75-80 degrees. Based on the H36's stability curve, that's just slightly beyond the maximum righting moment peak. She just calmly lay there on her side, slightly fore-reaching in all that wind, with water only part way up the sidedeck (rail just awash)- and a dry cockpit. After letting down the arch-mounted traveler to bring her up a little, I was able to crawl forward to the cabintop winches and release the mainsheet - and she came right back up as if nothing had ever happened. The same high freeboard that is at the limit of what I can step-up to from a floating dock to pull myself aboard by the shrouds, and provides occasionally annoying windage when docking, suddenly became worth a king's ransom in my eyes. We often focus on ultimate stability when considering seaworthiness. And knowing that if inverted you can come back up again is important. However, it's initial stability or "stiffness" that provides the resistance to inversion in most conditions. And modern wide, high freeboard hulls have more form stability. The stability curve for my boat has an area above the 0-axis that's more than 3 times the area below the axis. So, obviously, it'll take less than one third the wave energy required to invert her in order to flip her back upright again. A Pacific Seacraft 40 has a more than 4-to-1 areas ratio and will come back from inversion with very little wave action. Since any boat can be inverted by a breaking wave on her beam whose height exceeds the beam of the boat, if I wanted to be able to go below and passively wait out a storm I'd be more confident in the PS40. I might get rolled, but I'd have a high probability of coming back upright more quickly. However, since I do coastal cruising in the Gulf of Maine rather than 2-3 week ocean crossings, I count on active measures in heavy weather and have a lot of faith in Persephone's ability to take care of me, as long as I don't go out in hurricanes. (I also have as much interior volume as the PS40.) That confidence is based on her inital stability - not the curve, but what I now know it means. Part of that is the ballast ratio, but that's only 36%. Much is form stability - from her wide beam and high freeboard. I'll never look enviously at a slinky sheer line and low freeboard again. (Also - to Ken's point - I'm awfully glad I was singlehanding when I learned all this .) Fair winds, Al
Hal - I had an experience in my 05H36 with a downdraft from a summer thunderstorm that led me to that same conclusion. When coming back from the Isles of Shoals one summer day a couple of years ago, I saw a big, black Tstorm coming offshore to meet me. It had heavy rainfall lines descending at its sides and was a more solid yellow on my RADAR screen than the shoreline, so I 3-reefed my mainsail and partially furled the jib. As it hit, Persephone was doing rather well by my feathering her into and slightly off the wind as it passed 48kts true on my ST60 Wind in a soaking deluge that made it hard to see the jib. Then, a wild shift in wind direction and increase in velocity - most likely from a downdraft - backed the jib, rapidly spun her broadside and pinned her. My inclinometer only reads to 60 degrees, but I estimate the angle at which she was pinned to be 75-80 degrees. Based on the H36's stability curve, that's just slightly beyond the maximum righting moment peak. She just calmly lay there on her side, slightly fore-reaching in all that wind, with water only part way up the sidedeck (rail just awash)- and a dry cockpit. After letting down the arch-mounted traveler to bring her up a little, I was able to crawl forward to the cabintop winches and release the mainsheet - and she came right back up as if nothing had ever happened. The same high freeboard that is at the limit of what I can step-up to from a floating dock to pull myself aboard by the shrouds, and provides occasionally annoying windage when docking, suddenly became worth a king's ransom in my eyes. We often focus on ultimate stability when considering seaworthiness. And knowing that if inverted you can come back up again is important. However, it's initial stability or "stiffness" that provides the resistance to inversion in most conditions. And modern wide, high freeboard hulls have more form stability. The stability curve for my boat has an area above the 0-axis that's more than 3 times the area below the axis. So, obviously, it'll take less than one third the wave energy required to invert her in order to flip her back upright again. A Pacific Seacraft 40 has a more than 4-to-1 areas ratio and will come back from inversion with very little wave action. Since any boat can be inverted by a breaking wave on her beam whose height exceeds the beam of the boat, if I wanted to be able to go below and passively wait out a storm I'd be more confident in the PS40. I might get rolled, but I'd have a high probability of coming back upright more quickly. However, since I do coastal cruising in the Gulf of Maine rather than 2-3 week ocean crossings, I count on active measures in heavy weather and have a lot of faith in Persephone's ability to take care of me, as long as I don't go out in hurricanes. (I also have as much interior volume as the PS40.) That confidence is based on her inital stability - not the curve, but what I now know it means. Part of that is the ballast ratio, but that's only 36%. Much is form stability - from her wide beam and high freeboard. I'll never look enviously at a slinky sheer line and low freeboard again. (Also - to Ken's point - I'm awfully glad I was singlehanding when I learned all this .) Fair winds, Al
..If inverted..
Al, you're right to say, ''We often focus on ultimate stability when considering seaworthiness. And knowing that if inverted you can come back up again is important.'' BUT ARE YOU SURE YOUR BOAT WATERTIGHT ENOUGH WHEN INVERTED.....? (I've some doubts for our Hunters)
Al, you're right to say, ''We often focus on ultimate stability when considering seaworthiness. And knowing that if inverted you can come back up again is important.'' BUT ARE YOU SURE YOUR BOAT WATERTIGHT ENOUGH WHEN INVERTED.....? (I've some doubts for our Hunters)
Here's the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OawKoaMXZ4 Music background fits pretty well too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OawKoaMXZ4 Music background fits pretty well too.
I Just Checked the Vid *yks
I'm not sure what you are asking about the knockdown (KD),(~2:02 into vid), but the boom vang on the Main never even tightens during the KD.
I'm not sure what you are asking about the knockdown (KD),(~2:02 into vid), but the boom vang on the Main never even tightens during the KD.
High freeboard safety
Thanks for input and account of valuable first hand experience. Watched vid again 1:21 and repeated at 3:04 is the point of “excess heel" and recovery. The film appears to cut after initial recovery, so how easily and quickly they got back to sailing is unknown.
Thanks for input and account of valuable first hand experience. Watched vid again 1:21 and repeated at 3:04 is the point of “excess heel" and recovery. The film appears to cut after initial recovery, so how easily and quickly they got back to sailing is unknown.
This vid....
... is a good example of a sailing group that does absolutely nothing with respect to sail trim after the sails are hoisted. At no point were any sails trimmed after the original setup. It appears they might have been racing but were far more interested in taking pictures than sailing well. Properly setup this boat would have been up on her feet and sailing faster with far less heel. I seriously doubt that they knew what they were doing.
... is a good example of a sailing group that does absolutely nothing with respect to sail trim after the sails are hoisted. At no point were any sails trimmed after the original setup. It appears they might have been racing but were far more interested in taking pictures than sailing well. Properly setup this boat would have been up on her feet and sailing faster with far less heel. I seriously doubt that they knew what they were doing.
Sail magazine Jan. issue article about H37 Legend
There was an article about a 37' Hunter Legend that got caught in a freak storm. Boat was blown over with the keel out of the water and recovered. Only damage was hailstones in the aft berth due to a porthole being open. Mentioned this because it fits with what Al is saying about high freeboard.
There was an article about a 37' Hunter Legend that got caught in a freak storm. Boat was blown over with the keel out of the water and recovered. Only damage was hailstones in the aft berth due to a porthole being open. Mentioned this because it fits with what Al is saying about high freeboard.
Safety !!!
Hi Just saw the V clip, Best I can say is the boat looked after them, no Lifejackets,no Harnesses even the guy up on the foredeck had no safety gear. Then folks wonder why accidents happen. Tony
Hi Just saw the V clip, Best I can say is the boat looked after them, no Lifejackets,no Harnesses even the guy up on the foredeck had no safety gear. Then folks wonder why accidents happen. Tony
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