When does a sailboat become a blue-water sailing vessel? Length, keel, beam, equipment, rigging, design of thru-hulls, etc.? I'm interested in feedback, thanks.
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I'll take a whack at it
Good question John, to which I'm not sure there's an answer. Nonetheless, I'll give it a go. I think sailboats are optimized for a specific type of sailing. Some are optimized for racing around the buoys on a lake or in a protected bay; others are optimized for day sailing; others are optimized for coastal crusing; and still others are optimized for blue water cruising of the ocean crossing variety which is I think your question. I have a 1992 Hunter 37.5 which I think is optimized for coastal cruising. One of my best friends has a Valiant 40 he's twice sailed to the South Pacific which is definitely optimized for blue water cruising. Some comparisons between the boats might shed some light on your question. Below decks my Hunter at 37.5 feet appears much larger than his Valiant at 39.8 feet. My Hunter has more head room, is lighter, much more spacious, and easier to live in. His portlights and hatches are smaller in defense against boarding seas. His aft cabin is a quarterberth which is easier to sleep in at sea because you can wedge in. None of his drawers or cabinets will open without first releasing a catch. This is a pain at anchor but at least his drawers won't dump out at sea. His tankage (fresh water and fuel) is considerably larger for extended voyages. His sail plan is a cutter with an inner forestay that is great to have when things get blowing really hard. Mine is a sloop rig and not designed for the inner forestay. He's got a longer keel and a skeg rudder instead of a fin keel with a balanced rudder. His is sturdier. Mine is more maneuverable. Just about all the rigging and fittings on his boat are beefier than mine. We sail on blue water all the time. We'll be out on the Pacific for two months this summer on the West Coast of Vancouver Island. Next year we're going to Alaska. But I still don't think of my Hunter as a blue water boat. My friend's Valiant definitely is. Hope this helps. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H37.5
Good question John, to which I'm not sure there's an answer. Nonetheless, I'll give it a go. I think sailboats are optimized for a specific type of sailing. Some are optimized for racing around the buoys on a lake or in a protected bay; others are optimized for day sailing; others are optimized for coastal crusing; and still others are optimized for blue water cruising of the ocean crossing variety which is I think your question. I have a 1992 Hunter 37.5 which I think is optimized for coastal cruising. One of my best friends has a Valiant 40 he's twice sailed to the South Pacific which is definitely optimized for blue water cruising. Some comparisons between the boats might shed some light on your question. Below decks my Hunter at 37.5 feet appears much larger than his Valiant at 39.8 feet. My Hunter has more head room, is lighter, much more spacious, and easier to live in. His portlights and hatches are smaller in defense against boarding seas. His aft cabin is a quarterberth which is easier to sleep in at sea because you can wedge in. None of his drawers or cabinets will open without first releasing a catch. This is a pain at anchor but at least his drawers won't dump out at sea. His tankage (fresh water and fuel) is considerably larger for extended voyages. His sail plan is a cutter with an inner forestay that is great to have when things get blowing really hard. Mine is a sloop rig and not designed for the inner forestay. He's got a longer keel and a skeg rudder instead of a fin keel with a balanced rudder. His is sturdier. Mine is more maneuverable. Just about all the rigging and fittings on his boat are beefier than mine. We sail on blue water all the time. We'll be out on the Pacific for two months this summer on the West Coast of Vancouver Island. Next year we're going to Alaska. But I still don't think of my Hunter as a blue water boat. My friend's Valiant definitely is. Hope this helps. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H37.5
No answer will fit everyone
This question is raised from time to time and it elicits great passion. The fact that there is no real answer without making certain assumptions and analyzing the sailor will only ascerbate this debate. People have crossed oceans in 9 foot sailing dinghys, in inflatable liferafts (for research), in straw rafts (Thor Hyderdahl) and in row boats. Probably the question ought to be, "what do you need to cross the ocean?
This question is raised from time to time and it elicits great passion. The fact that there is no real answer without making certain assumptions and analyzing the sailor will only ascerbate this debate. People have crossed oceans in 9 foot sailing dinghys, in inflatable liferafts (for research), in straw rafts (Thor Hyderdahl) and in row boats. Probably the question ought to be, "what do you need to cross the ocean?
Thats easy....
when a boat (doesn't matter what size) is in sound condition, outfitted properly, and the skipper knows whar he is doing. That's when it is ready....I sail in Tennessee, but have lived in Bermuda, the Gulf, and the Pacific. I would not hesitate to take a Hunter 25 of the 80's across the ocean....I know how.
when a boat (doesn't matter what size) is in sound condition, outfitted properly, and the skipper knows whar he is doing. That's when it is ready....I sail in Tennessee, but have lived in Bermuda, the Gulf, and the Pacific. I would not hesitate to take a Hunter 25 of the 80's across the ocean....I know how.
Skill and preparation
In 1965 Robert Manry from Cleveland,Ohio took a 13' sailboat built by The Old Town Canoe Co. He modified it and made a 78 day,3200 mile crossing of THE ATLANTIC OCEAN without GPS. So now tell me what a blue water boat is. Just a little food for thought.
In 1965 Robert Manry from Cleveland,Ohio took a 13' sailboat built by The Old Town Canoe Co. He modified it and made a 78 day,3200 mile crossing of THE ATLANTIC OCEAN without GPS. So now tell me what a blue water boat is. Just a little food for thought.
With All Due Respect
With all due respect, Don, that does not make a 13' canoe a blue water vessel. Evil Kanevel can use a motorcycle to jump the grand canyon but that does not make the cycle an airplane. So its in the eye of the beholder. For the average person interested in crossing oceans, Gary's response is closer to spot on.
With all due respect, Don, that does not make a 13' canoe a blue water vessel. Evil Kanevel can use a motorcycle to jump the grand canyon but that does not make the cycle an airplane. So its in the eye of the beholder. For the average person interested in crossing oceans, Gary's response is closer to spot on.
Tool for a purpose
If you think of a boat as a tool designed with a purpose it all makes sense. Garry is right in his descriptions. You can use a rock as a hammer. You can use a wrench as a hammer. But if you are building a house buy a real hammer!!! John Vigor wrote a book on this subject and it is good reading.
If you think of a boat as a tool designed with a purpose it all makes sense. Garry is right in his descriptions. You can use a rock as a hammer. You can use a wrench as a hammer. But if you are building a house buy a real hammer!!! John Vigor wrote a book on this subject and it is good reading.
The Irony is that....
No vessel is a bluewater boat unless the skipper is a bluewater sailor. Any reasonably built boat can be made bluewater capable by someone who knows and understands what is required. When you truly have that skill and knowledge, you will have developed strong preferences for certain design characteristics. If you don't have the skills, but wish to purchase a boat, you may be better off buying a good solid coastal cruiser with decent resale potential. You will then be able to acquire the skills needed and yet be able to maximize your investment recapture when you have decided on the best boat for you.
No vessel is a bluewater boat unless the skipper is a bluewater sailor. Any reasonably built boat can be made bluewater capable by someone who knows and understands what is required. When you truly have that skill and knowledge, you will have developed strong preferences for certain design characteristics. If you don't have the skills, but wish to purchase a boat, you may be better off buying a good solid coastal cruiser with decent resale potential. You will then be able to acquire the skills needed and yet be able to maximize your investment recapture when you have decided on the best boat for you.
Don't mix skippers and boat designs
Going back to the tool comparisons. A good hammer doesn't make you a carpenter but it is still a good hammer. The design of a boat has nothing to do with the ability of the captain. Except maybe that a good captain might make a better choice when buying a boat. How much do you value your life??? The higher the value you place upon your life the better the boat you will require. Someone who starts across the atlantic in a 13' boat must not value their life very highly. That's OK sometimes my life has seemed more precious when it was on the edge. I felt very alive last year while kayaking Okefenokee swamp with numerous large alligators in close proximity. Even then no way would I have traded my kayak for an inner tube!!!!
Going back to the tool comparisons. A good hammer doesn't make you a carpenter but it is still a good hammer. The design of a boat has nothing to do with the ability of the captain. Except maybe that a good captain might make a better choice when buying a boat. How much do you value your life??? The higher the value you place upon your life the better the boat you will require. Someone who starts across the atlantic in a 13' boat must not value their life very highly. That's OK sometimes my life has seemed more precious when it was on the edge. I felt very alive last year while kayaking Okefenokee swamp with numerous large alligators in close proximity. Even then no way would I have traded my kayak for an inner tube!!!!
Your analogy supports my contention!
An inept or inexperienced carpenter can't build a house with the best hammer in the world (and may cause serious injury) A good carpenter will make a choice of the most suitable hammer for the carpenter's preferences and for the requirements of the job from among dozens of designs varying from good to superb quality, usually factoring in price and budget considerations. A good carpenter can get the job done with an inferior product***if forced to***. Interestingly enough, I have worked for carpenters in my youth and make Colonial reproduction furniture as a hobby and occasional avocation. I suspect that I have more than a dozen hammers in my shop. To carry your analogy a bit further. You don't want to frame a house with a tack hammer and you don't need a 20 ounce claw hammer to hang molding (though you could). If I were asked to recommend a hammer for a novice to take on the first day of work, it would be a Stanley 16 oz. framing hammer. Cheap, good forged head, solid handle, decent balance, decent milling on the face and serviceable for a wide variety of tasks. It would get the novice through until experience and specialization dictated other choices. As a serviceable hammer, a healthy part of the cost could be recouped when replacing it (of course, a hammer is cheap enough to keep whereas a sailboat usually isn't). In the case of a sailor aspiring to blue water cruising with little experience, a sturdy well maintained Behuntalina would be a good start until the more experience choice could be made. If I have made erroneous assumption about the experience of the original poster, apologies are extended (but you could of asked what is our preferred or favorite BWC...still a can of worms...heheheh... just a more homogeneous breed)
An inept or inexperienced carpenter can't build a house with the best hammer in the world (and may cause serious injury) A good carpenter will make a choice of the most suitable hammer for the carpenter's preferences and for the requirements of the job from among dozens of designs varying from good to superb quality, usually factoring in price and budget considerations. A good carpenter can get the job done with an inferior product***if forced to***. Interestingly enough, I have worked for carpenters in my youth and make Colonial reproduction furniture as a hobby and occasional avocation. I suspect that I have more than a dozen hammers in my shop. To carry your analogy a bit further. You don't want to frame a house with a tack hammer and you don't need a 20 ounce claw hammer to hang molding (though you could). If I were asked to recommend a hammer for a novice to take on the first day of work, it would be a Stanley 16 oz. framing hammer. Cheap, good forged head, solid handle, decent balance, decent milling on the face and serviceable for a wide variety of tasks. It would get the novice through until experience and specialization dictated other choices. As a serviceable hammer, a healthy part of the cost could be recouped when replacing it (of course, a hammer is cheap enough to keep whereas a sailboat usually isn't). In the case of a sailor aspiring to blue water cruising with little experience, a sturdy well maintained Behuntalina would be a good start until the more experience choice could be made. If I have made erroneous assumption about the experience of the original poster, apologies are extended (but you could of asked what is our preferred or favorite BWC...still a can of worms...heheheh... just a more homogeneous breed)
Around the world!
Presently I hear there is a guy trying to circle the world in a, get this, 5 footer! What can you make of that!
Presently I hear there is a guy trying to circle the world in a, get this, 5 footer! What can you make of that!
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