I just got a venture 23 vintage 1976. I believe i have all the rigging to the mast correct except the rear cable stay to the top of the mast. It has a adjustable mount that i assume goes to the transom. But in the configuration it would hit the boom when it swings. Im at a loss. Please help. Pics are of boat and adjuster.
Help with my venture 23
- Thread starter Kaiserpj
- Start date
Do not know the boat, but these images support the standard practice of running the back stay to the transom not the boom. Looking closely at these images of a 1973 Venture you can see the wire (backstay) running from the mast head (top of the mast aft side) to the stern (transom) of the boat.
Yes my issue is that the boom is longer than i see possible to be able to clear. It does look as if the boom is longer than the one in your picture. It has a line that holds the boom up. Im assuming this is only when the sail is not up...?
The boom may or may not be the correct one for your boat. You will need to measure. Then check your boat name and length on Sailbaotdata.com . You can find the design specifications for your boat.
There is a line that runs from the mast head to the end of the boom. Called a topping lift. It serves to support the boom. You can use it to maintain the boom in a level position. Or you can ease it and the sail leach will support the boom in a stiff breeze.
The Back stay serves a different purpose than the topping lift. On some rigs the side stays (shrouds) are swept back and the mast is suppported by these swept back stays. Others use the back stay to support the mast. Is there a fitting in the middle of the transom that looks like a wire needs to be attached to it? Then you should have a back stay to support the mast. If no fitting (chain plate) on the transom for a wire (either single to transom - or - a split wire , straight most of the way then splits and goes to each corner of the transom) then you do not have a back stay and the longer boom is there to expand your sail area.
There is a line that runs from the mast head to the end of the boom. Called a topping lift. It serves to support the boom. You can use it to maintain the boom in a level position. Or you can ease it and the sail leach will support the boom in a stiff breeze.
The Back stay serves a different purpose than the topping lift. On some rigs the side stays (shrouds) are swept back and the mast is suppported by these swept back stays. Others use the back stay to support the mast. Is there a fitting in the middle of the transom that looks like a wire needs to be attached to it? Then you should have a back stay to support the mast. If no fitting (chain plate) on the transom for a wire (either single to transom - or - a split wire , straight most of the way then splits and goes to each corner of the transom) then you do not have a back stay and the longer boom is there to expand your sail area.
I have dual lines coming on each side of the mast. One line goes to the spreaders and another goes to the deck right behind them. There are 2 mounts on my transom that i would assume were for a split wire setup. But even w that i dont see how the boom would clear.
My mast is 28ft. Not sure on the boom length. Ill check tomorrow. But why would i have the (adjuster block?) Not sure on term. If it didn't require a rear stay?
Ok. Here is the link to the Venture 23 See if this is correct.
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=86
In the are titled "Rig and Sail Prarticulars" you can find the rig dimensions. E is the length of the foot so the sail. This is maybe 6 less than 12 inches shy of the length of the boom. It reads 9 feet . So you boom should be 9 feet or a little more say 9'6" about.
Here is the image of the boat design measurements (you can find it by clicking the "key" link in the same section.
A split rig would have a wire from the mast head to a point Some 6 to 10 feet above the transom. Then the wire would split and run to the transom corners. If you have a manual for the boat you should be able to identify the rigging design.
Try posting pictures of the transom showing the blocks.
Where does the main sheet attaché to the boom. Is it in the middle and runs to the rope of the cabin or is it on the end of the boom, which would run to the transom.
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=86
In the are titled "Rig and Sail Prarticulars" you can find the rig dimensions. E is the length of the foot so the sail. This is maybe 6 less than 12 inches shy of the length of the boom. It reads 9 feet . So you boom should be 9 feet or a little more say 9'6" about.
Here is the image of the boat design measurements (you can find it by clicking the "key" link in the same section.
A split rig would have a wire from the mast head to a point Some 6 to 10 feet above the transom. Then the wire would split and run to the transom corners. If you have a manual for the boat you should be able to identify the rigging design.
Try posting pictures of the transom showing the blocks.
Where does the main sheet attaché to the boom. Is it in the middle and runs to the rope of the cabin or is it on the end of the boom, which would run to the transom.
Kaiser, Found this image of a Venture about the same age as yours. Looks like there is no back stay. The boom is supported by a topping lift. The end of the boom has 2 running sheets and blocks that control the boom/mainsail while sailing. It looks like the owner has attached a line to pull against the topping lit to the pulpit around the stern while the boat is at the mooring. I would expect you would remove that line when sailing. The leech of the sail and the boom end mainsheets maintain the sail control. There are 2 shrouds that sweep back along sides of the boat. They attach further aft of the mast base forming the triangle needed with the from stay to support the mast. Note the spreaders also sweep back behind the mast.
I had a V 2-22 which is very similar. I love the look of the 23. If I recall, the backstay attached to the right side of the transom, That might give some more room. In the pic above posted by JSSailem, (22?) there is a backstay, looks like it is attached to the pushpit? There is a pigtail acting as a topping lift. Verify that the boom is mounted at the right height on the mast, and yes verify that the boom is the right length, stuff gets swapped around on older boats. Mast rake will have a huge effect on handling, so make sure the mast rake is correct. Make sure the mast tabernacle is in the right place on the cabin top. The 23 had 2 headsails and the mast was moved forward or backward (I forget) relative to the 21, 22, and 25.
K, Definitely check mast rake. The photo you posted looks like the mast is raked forward, which will affect the angle the stay hits the transom. Also check the fore stays are correct, IE the inner stay isn't being used as the outer stay. On my 2.22, added a turnbuckle on the backstay. The made the backstay way too long, and gave the mast a forward rake. It was not easy to turn that boat, much less tack. Of course then I was young and stupid, and did not realize what I had done. Now I am old and stupid.
Make sure all the stays and shrouds are in the right place and are the right length. On trailer sailer, easy to attach things in the wrong place.
l
Make sure all the stays and shrouds are in the right place and are the right length. On trailer sailer, easy to attach things in the wrong place.
l
I think Lillia28 is on the right track. I also had a V22-2 and I've also owned two V21s. All three boats had an off set back stay to a chain plate on the starboard side of the transom. That will open up the arch by a few inches and maybe clear your boom. Another oddity of the macgregors is the back stay has a little slack in it except when running with the wind.
Ok my boom length is 11ft and just a hair. I cant say how much i appreciate the help. Here is a better pic of what i have going on in the aft.
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This picture shows a stock VN23, with the back stay connected to a tang on the transom to the starboard side of the tiller. In this picture the boom is being held by a topping lift from the masthead, but you can also see a pigtail from the back stay that could also be used to support the boom. Our boom cleared the back stay, so I can only assume that the boom on your VN23 is not stock.
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The boom on my cat22 would catch on the back stay if it flew up too high. Yours look high. Set it perpendicular to the mast and I think it will clear.
Your back stay looks very loose is your mast raked too far aft, or tighten up the aft adjuster. The mast shouldn't be supported by boom and mainsheet
Your back stay looks very loose is your mast raked too far aft, or tighten up the aft adjuster. The mast shouldn't be supported by boom and mainsheet
I really love the wooden rails on those V23s.
I don't think that is where the back stay connects. You would not be able to throw your tiller over if the back stay were connected in the middle of the transom like that. I think that must be the original mast since I can still see the roller boom tang on the end. It is the same roller boom tang I had on my V22. Does the main sail fit this boom? If so, then it is almost certainly an issue with where your back stay connects. Is it possible that someone moved the U-bolt where the back stay connects? It seems to me that if your back stay attached about where your stern light is, your boom would pass. Is there a place to connect your backstay in the port corner of your transom? If not, it is possible someone got a second hand boom and just reused the end cap from the old boom but you are still going to have a tiller issue with the back stay in that location.
Here is a pic of one I found online with a split backstay... that might be a good option.... and a second pic with the chain plate a little more starboard than yours...
If it turns out that your main is small for this boom and it actually is not the original boom. You can drill out the rivets for the end cap, saw off a foot of the boom and rivet or screw the end cap back on. I've replaced end caps before. About an hour long job start to finish.
I don't think that is where the back stay connects. You would not be able to throw your tiller over if the back stay were connected in the middle of the transom like that. I think that must be the original mast since I can still see the roller boom tang on the end. It is the same roller boom tang I had on my V22. Does the main sail fit this boom? If so, then it is almost certainly an issue with where your back stay connects. Is it possible that someone moved the U-bolt where the back stay connects? It seems to me that if your back stay attached about where your stern light is, your boom would pass. Is there a place to connect your backstay in the port corner of your transom? If not, it is possible someone got a second hand boom and just reused the end cap from the old boom but you are still going to have a tiller issue with the back stay in that location.
Here is a pic of one I found online with a split backstay... that might be a good option.... and a second pic with the chain plate a little more starboard than yours...
If it turns out that your main is small for this boom and it actually is not the original boom. You can drill out the rivets for the end cap, saw off a foot of the boom and rivet or screw the end cap back on. I've replaced end caps before. About an hour long job start to finish.
Ok so this leads me to my second question. These are the clips on my main sail... i did not receive sail slugs with the boat are these the correct ones for the mast? And do i use the same for the boom? I can then go attempt to raise the sail. As soon as our 30mph winds die. Not trying to learn to sail on concrete.
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Try slipping the sail slides (slugs) into the slot on your mast and see if they fit.
Regarding shackles... on my current sail I have these
and in the past I have used these...
But I think it is just a preference thing. So long as they get the job done.
Regarding shackles... on my current sail I have these
and in the past I have used these...
But I think it is just a preference thing. So long as they get the job done.
Sounds like you have some sorting to do. You should have 3 sails, Jib, Yankee and main. The yankee will be smaller than the jib, both head sails will have hanks to attach to the forestays. I would do some googling for a M 23 instruction sheet. There are some peculiarities in rigging a 23. Mast rake is a bit more extreme on a 23 than the other Macgregors. I remember it as hanging a weight from the main halyard and raking the mast until the weight was X or so inches from the mast, but I have long forgotten what X is. I'd also search the Macgregor forum on here. There will be other Venture of Newport owners who will know the right answers.
lou
lou