Help with Keel winch repair M25

[savyauto]

Got most of my rigging issues handled and now have sailed the boat 5 times(awesome!). I am getting water in and realized I have a structural problem at the winch/keel lift that needs fixing. I bet someone else has had this issue and I would appreciate any input on repair/reinforcement and especially pics. I foresee treated wood reinforcement, fiberglassing the damage where the keel cable goes throught the hull and possible 12v winch with hand crank backup.

Thanks for any input...

 

[caguy]

Do you have pictures?

 

[savyauto]

pica

https://picasaweb.google.com/savvyauto/Macgregor25#

pics at bottom of the album.

I have already started fiberglass repair. I removed the wood platform and crank winch that had been installed by PO. I can see the structural colapse where the cracks are that occurred at some point prior to me getting the boat. I guess that someone also cut the fiberglass out for the wood platform. I don't know how much reinforcement is needed. I have an electric winch that I can make work, or go back to the hand crank. Please advise...

Do you have pictures?

 

[savyauto]

Re: pica

http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=33331&d=1282712088

pic I found in the forum. I have this same winch left from another project.

 

[Ol Dave]

On my Mac 25 the cable passed through a length of hose. That kept the water out.

 

[SailArkansas]

On my Mac 25 the cable passed through a length of hose. That kept the water out.

That is virtually the same setup as on my 1969 Venture 17! I also had a hose through which the keel cable passed connecting the bottom of the hull to the bottom of the cockpit. Then the cable proceeded in the open up to the wooden winch holder. Looks to me like the only change from the V17 to the M25 is they built a compartment to house the cable.

My leak was always at the pivot pin for the keel that passed through the keel housing. I sort of solved (reduced) the problem with rubber washers and SS fender washers.

My thinking is that you could epoxy a piece of PVC to the inside hull bottom to completely encapsulate the cable and through hull fitting and terminate the top end at the top of the compartment under the wood. I have never tried epoxy with PVC and 2-part may be incompatible with PVC plastic. There are other bonding agents such as 5200 that might do the job. Good luck!

 

[Ol Dave]

Oh Yeah ... I forgot about the pivot pin .... it always leaked there too. You just adapt to it. It's all part of sailing a trailerable, like hearing a loud hummmmm at certain speeds from the keel cable.

 

[SailArkansas]

Oh Yeah ... I forgot about the pivot pin .... it always leaked there too. You just adapt to it. It's all part of sailing a trailerable, like hearing a loud hummmmm at certain speeds from the keel cable.

Oh yes! I remember that hummmmm too. I would just let out a little more cable and it usually went away. Added a bit more drag but my 17 wasn't that fast anyway. The biggest problem that I had with the boat was just keeping it dry below. The cabin windows were terrible. I finally just got to where I covered up the whole cabin with a big tarp when she was on the trailer.

Fun boat though.

 

[MrUnix]

Had the same experience with my V17, although I solved the pivot bolt leaking problem with some special plastic washers (with a lip on the inside that fit into the hole and also acted as a bushing), SS fender washers and a little bit of sealant. The hum of the cable was used to let us know how fast we were going.. the higher the hum, the faster we were going

On the V17, the winch support was basically just a 2x8 spanning across the cockpit seats and bolted to them. Of course, the V17 keel is only a couple hundred pounds.. Your Mac25 keel weighs closer to 700lbs, so you will want to provide enough support to handle that weight. Its hard to tell from your pictures, but it looks like your winch was inside the cabin? Perhaps a previous owner mod? Here is a picture I found of a Mac25 that shows the winch installed similar to the V17: http://www.sailingtexas.com/Pics/picmacgregor25137d.jpg

Cheers,
Brad

 

[THECUSCUS]

This is what your boat should've looked like before the PO cut it up. The original design made a nice step to get below. The step part was made very thick, and supported by the rest of the "box" section, to be able to support the weight of the keel. The winch mounted to the underside of the step, and the crank stuck out through the circular hole in the front side (see picture). This "box" also supports the front of the cockpit. You should have 2 bolts (probably filled holes on yours) going through the front edge of the cockpit into the backside of the "box". There is a small gap between the two (about 1/2 to 3/4 inch) which is filled with a piece of wood. This piece of wood should extend down to come in contact with the liner below, as it also helps to distribute the loads. I will try and take afew more pictures tonight.

 

[THECUSCUS]

Pictures of keel winch "box"

Here are the pictures of my 1979 Venture 25 keel winch box. A picture is worth a thousand words:dance:, so I won't bother with any commentary, but if you need any clarifications, just ask.

 

[SailArkansas]

Here are the pictures of my 1979 Venture 25 keel winch box. A picture is worth a thousand words:dance:, so I won't bother with any commentary, but if you need any clarifications, just ask.

Really really nice!

 

[savyauto]

Thanks

Looks like this is the first major project for my boat. I plan to cut out the damaged area and replace, while incorporating the 12volt winch.Thanks for the pics. You have given me an idea what to make it look like when done. I will need to come up with limit switches and a system of installing them to work in both directions to make the setup "idiot-proof".
I am open for any suggestions...

 

[Fred Villiard]

Savyauto,

I'm in the process of putting an electric keel winch on my mac 25, Nemosuite put one on his 22, I don't know if he has limit switches or not.

I will have limit switches and a lockout if the lock bolt is in place. Going to have controls in the cockpit and by the keel pivot and lock area, so that I can see when the holes line up. Most of the time I'll be single handing. and lot shallows so the cockpit controls will come in handy. I'll put a lockout for the keel lock bolt, so that when I have a senior moment I can't tear anything up.

If you are interested send me an email (fred.villiard@aipce.com) and I'll send you some drawings as soon as I get them in an order that someone can understand.
I only get email during the week at work don't have email at home.

 

[savyauto]

Progress

Thanks for the pics, help and encouragement...
pics at the bottom of the album
https://picasaweb.google.com/savvyauto/Macgregor25#

I cut out the fiberglass, reinforced the floor and deck with 2x8 and 2x10 treated, Then fiberglassed that in place and installed the winch. I still want to replace the winch cable at next haul out and put in limit switches for safety.
Winch works great and extends or retracts in less than 30 seconds, with no busted knuckles.
Now to waterproof all the rest of the boat and work on the layout of the interior and lighting system.

 

[kenn]

Looks like a solid job.

To be honest I would not have used any softwood, treated or not, because if you can't keep it dry most of the time, it will eventually rot out. About the only wood I've used for inside work is marine plywood, and I take great pains to not place any wood where it can touch water on the hull interior (eg bilge).

Be sure to leave some sort of access so that you can inspect these wood pieces regularly. With care, and dryness, you should be OK.