Help needed for East Coast Menhaden Fishing

[elle]

Folks,

I'm not sure this is the best forum for this message, but I know that HOW is a fantastic means to get a message out. I apologize in advance if I have misappropriated the forum. Phil, if it needs to go elsewhere,or if it violates any of the posting regs, please move or remove this.

Menhaden are the stock fish used in the vitamin and many other industries. Omega Protein is the main employer in the Northern Neck of Virginia. Enacting restrictions before having solid data would be devastating to this area of the country which already experiences high unemployment.

The decline of this industry will have untold effects on the Northern Neck. We on the Northern Neck need as many signatures as we can by Nov. 16.

If you are willing, please sign the petition and send it in.

Thanks.

elle

For those who would like more information, you can search Reedville, VA, Omega Protein, menhaden, www.SavingMenhaden.org, and other items listed in the letter below.



Subject: Fwd: FW: URGENT ACTION NEEDED: Help Protect the Menhaden Fishery


Any of you pound net aficionados interested in this? The efforts of the opponents of the industry in this letter writing campaign are enormous.


Campaign to Protect the Menhaden Fishery Re: ASMFC Amendment 2

Next month, the ASMFC will consider Amendment 2 regarding Atlantic menhaden management, which will establish the first ever coast wide quota on menhaden harvest levels. Should the ASMFC adopt harsh limits on menhaden harvest levels, the future of the fishery could be put in great peril.

Across the nation, environmental interest groups are spinning statistics and perpetuating half-truths in order to convince their supporters that those who work within and depend on the menhaden fishery want to destroy the Atlantic menhaden species. Of course, those of us who understand this historic and vital fishery know that their allegations are far from the truth.

As was the case earlier this year, the Menhaden Fisheries Coalition has devised a campaign for those who stand with the menhaden fishery. Today, we are launching a website - - http://letter.savingmenhaden.org - where folks can submit their signature in support of this fishery. The deadline for all submissions is one week from today - Next Friday, November 16th at 4pm EST.

Now, more than ever, it is crucial that we work together to generate as much support for the menhaden fishery as possible. Earlier this year, we received over 1,100 signatures in support of the fishery, and we're hoping to top that number this go-round. In order to do so, we need your help to spread the word about this important campaign.

Our opponents are working quickly to submit as many signatures to the ASMFC as possible in support of their desire to reduce menhaden harvest levels as much as possible. If these groups have their way, those cuts could cripple the menhaden fishery. Scores of hard working families all along the Atlantic coast simply cannot afford these losses during this already difficult economic climate.

Again, our success in this endeavor ultimately hinges on our ability to act collectively on the behalf of this historic and economically vital fishery. Please help us by signing the letter and spreading the word to friends, family, colleagues, and neighbors. By working together, we can let the ASMFC know that the Atlantic menhaden fishery is the lifeblood of our Atlantic coastal communities.

As always, thanks so much for your continued help and support.
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Menhaden Fisheries Coalition contact information:
phone: 804-441-6272
e-mail: info@savingmenhaden.org



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[Bad Obsession]

I grew up in the Northern Neck and my first job was working as a first mate on a charter boat. I have spent hours and hours and hours on the bay. Some of these hours fishing, some of these hours sailing.

The problem is that the decline of the bunker population is from overfishing. Flat out, it is overfishing. The other game fish populations in the bay have declined as well.

There is no way that you can convince me that when the commercial boats are harvesting bunker that they aren't inadvertently picking up blue fish, stripers, sea trout, and other game fish.

This problem needs some in depth studies by a neutral third party. My gut feeling is that if this over harvesting continues then it will destroy the ecosystem of the Chesapeake Bay.

 

[RichH]

I think there is a strong disagreement vs. overfishing as the spawning areas for bunker - are virtually all in Maryland where commercial menhaden fishing is prohibited ... and the water has become so foul due to human over-population, chemical farming, and the bulk of municipal sewage plants routinely 'over topped' and constantly discharging zillions of gallons of 'raw and untreated' into the Potomac and Chesapeake. Where once you could walk across the water on the top of 'bunker' you now walk across the top of dispersed sewage sludge, mahogany tide, rafts of deadly cyano-bacteria and other human caused detritus.

I spent my summers growing up on Barnegatt and Great Bays in NJ where the bunker were in great vast numbers. Since now every square inch of possible shoreline and even marshland has been 'developed' into "Jersey Shore" squalor complete with leaking and mal-maintained sewerage systems, ... and nobody there today can tell you what a menhaden/bunker even looks like. Once where if you wanted a clam to eat all you had to do was shuffle your feet into the mud, reach down, open the bivalve ... and simply enjoy it. Do that now and the very few remaining but severely contaminated shell fish there will kill you, the pollution is that bad.

Theyve been studying and studying and studying 'the problem' since the 1970s and have spent billions ... and with absolutely NO result nor change --- just lip service to keep the grant money for even more studies rolling in. 'Sustainability' was a word coined by Vladimir Lenin to control the emerging communes ... people are smarter than that, politicians arent'.

Too many people, not enough recipes. Too many people devouring and destroying all possible living space is what the problem REALLY is.

 

[Fred Villiard]

What more solid information do you need? The menhaden population in the bay is less than 15% of what it was 15 years ago. Leave Omega go and there will not be any menhaden left.

I've been sportfishing the bay based out of Pointlookout for over 50 years and have seen the results of over fishing, oysters, blue crabs, rockfish (striped bass) to name a few.

Granted the limits will hurt now, but it it is better to hurt a little, than the alternitive of no menhaden in a few years. Which will also kill the the other fisheries, that depend on them for food, bluefish,rockfish,cobia to name a few.

Fred Villiard

 

[dugout]

You will be hard pressed to garner the desired response to your call to action here. Many of us agree with limiting the methods used by Omega Protein to harvest Menhaden. The Menhaden harvest from the pound-nets all the way up the bay have seen a drastic decline and even fellow commercial fisherman in MD and VA feel Omega Protein's harvest is out of control.

 

[elle]

The issues involved relate to vastly differing opinions (and they are opinions) and not empirical evidence re: the state of the menhaden stock.

The commission that met was unable to agree on the state of the stock;the variables were too numerous and the evidence to support any side too scanty.

It may be that limits will have to be established to protect the stock for the future; the problem lies in that no one has reliable information. Is there a problem? Is it pollution? Is it overfishing? Global warming? Find out if there is a problem first, then seek the cause. We too often 'solve' problems with knee-jerk regs and then complain of 'unintended consequences' '''weak speak for "Oh, we didn't think it through. My bad." And let it go.

I have been out on the Bay when Omega's spotter planes take off to direct the ships to the schools of fish. That certainly gives Omega the edge & the fish have no where to hide. Perhaps rather than quotas, an examination of Omega's methods might yield information to assist in their deciding what the problem is, and a way to sustain the stocks while not killing the industry and with it, the livelihood of this isolated piece of VA.

There is too much information not yet discovered about this problem.

 

[RichH]

The temporary or permanent depletion of natural resources is perhaps best described at "the tragedy of the commons" and which has been argued over endlessly since the time of the ancient philosophers. This especially applies to renewable resources such as fisheries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

The more modern successful approach especially in Africa has been simply turn over complete ownership of these resources to the indigenous or other interests that depend on them for their livelihood ... and most importantly give them total responsibility for the 'upkeep' of the renewable portion of the responsibility. Without such 'ownership', laws, central plans by government, etc. all will and do ultimately fail and the resource will permanently disappear or devolve into total uselessness.
Even with the modifiers of pollution, overpopulation of humans, etc. etc. etc., its really Omega's responsibility to 'husband' the stocks of fish as they are the principal sole benefactors ... and since no one else is 'harvesting' it seems squarely to be the responsibility of Omega to make the valid corrections that enable the stocks to stay at their current levels or increase .... or disappear. You simply can't take more fish than the amount that spawns a continuous supply.

Signatures wont help this ... Omega needs to leave enough fish to spawn so the stocks grow back to their proper and profitable harvestable numbers.

 

[KD3PC]

The issues involved relate to vastly differing opinions (and they are opinions) and not empirical evidence re: the state of the menhaden stock.

The commission that met was unable to agree on the state of the stock;the variables were too numerous and the evidence to support any side too scanty.

It may be that limits will have to be established to protect the stock for the future; the problem lies in that no one has reliable information. Is there a problem? Is it pollution? Is it overfishing? Global warming? Find out if there is a problem first, then seek the cause. We too often 'solve' problems with knee-jerk regs and then complain of 'unintended consequences' '''weak speak for "Oh, we didn't think it through. My bad." And let it go.

I have been out on the Bay when Omega's spotter planes take off to direct the ships to the schools of fish. That certainly gives Omega the edge & the fish have no where to hide. Perhaps rather than quotas, an examination of Omega's methods might yield information to assist in their deciding what the problem is, and a way to sustain the stocks while not killing the industry and with it, the livelihood of this isolated piece of VA.

There is too much information not yet discovered about this problem, and knee-jerk regulations are just another nail in the coffin of working man's America.

Like most issues, this one is rife with "information", most of which is garbage and the fact that again this issue has become politicized. Add in that the state of MD "owns" the water up to the VA shore, and feel that their research is "right", not necessarily accurate, factual or complete. Then add in the VA version, although they have no rights to the water near MD, but feel that they should be able to fish any of it.

I sat on one of the Committees that Congressman Wittman has and have beat this issue more times than I can count, AND with a plan that every represented constituency agrees to at the time....goes back to their home, business, marina...and gets hammered on. There is NO concensus in VA, nor is there money to research, and when most of us know as Rich posits, that the area is simply over run with people, farm run off and sewage..the politicians are NOT going to open that can of worms.

As important as Omega is to Reedville, I am sorry to say that unless they reduce the overkill of non target fish/bunkers, they are not long for the world. You can not continue to harvest, when for what ever reason the available fish are simply not there.

To do so for an industry that is not a NEED at this time is ...well there we are.

IF the states can't agree on saving the bay, how then are they going to agree on the fishing of one fish stock. Please let's agree to leave the EPA out.

 

[Gunni]

The issues involved relate to vastly differing opinions (and they are opinions) and not empirical evidence re: the state of the menhaden stock. *snip*

There is too much information not yet discovered about this problem.

Huh? The menhaden are at record low populations while the Virginia menhaden fishing fleet is taking 85,000 Tons of menhaden per year from the Bay. And then rounds up another 85,000 tons as they migrate up eastern shore.

Sorry lady, you may not like the facts but thems the facts. The industry has been playing loose with the fishery data for years, inflating the fishery size, and got caught by independent researchers. But nobody is talking about ending the fishery:

We’re pushing fair and reasonable limits and fishing rules:

• A 25 percent reduction of the menhaden catch as a first step toward eliminating overfishing.
• Reduce the fishing rate further to achieve the target level (30% of historic populations) within five years.
• To avoid undue financial harm to local fishermen catching menhaden for bait, the allocation plan should split the new quota 70:30 between the industrial fishery and the local bait fishery.

I suggest that concerned individuals contact Omega Protein and ask them to get on board with the conservation methods and return the critical menhaden fishery to good health. It is a win-win for all.

 

[elle]

As long as it doesn't affect me....

"Sorry lady, you may not like the facts but thems the facts.
We’re pushing fair and reasonable limits and fishing rules:"


Sorry, MISTER....but your facts leave a lot to be desired. And self-identifying yourself as part of the "We" weakens your stance.

It's too easy to blame the industry for depletion of stocks, impose limits willy-nilly and kill an entire industry and the jobs which it supports. Much more difficult to actually sort through the multijurisdictional mess created by layers of bureaucracy.

Look into Maryland's pollution practices...remember the Listeria outbreak in the Pokomoke a few years ago? No blame, just fact.

MD shoreline encompasses the entire upper and middle Bay....no chance for anything but pure pure water from all those rivers, poultry farms, cities and towns.

The Susquehanna flushes a huge area of the Chesapeake Watershed into the upper Bay. No pollution here.....

We won't even think about what DC and its environs pours into the Potomac during the course of the day....let alone after a storm when the treatment plants empty into the Anacostia . We on the lower Potomac see what comes down the River...and it ain't pretty.

So before you decide an entire industry must close up shop, whether or not they may be taking a too large share of the existing stock, look around and see what your environ and policies may be doing to exacerbate the problem.....MD owns the water to the shoreline of VA.....they are responsible for the water quality...and the health of the fish and shellfish therein.

To destroy an entire industry and way of life (and it is a way of life... there are NO jobs down here) because the search for answers is tough, a rough road, and really, really difficult, is patent isolationism. I guess as long as it doesn't affect you and your life, everyone else can go pound sand. And go on welfare.......

 

[elle]

"and when most of us know... that the area is simply over run with people, farm run off and sewage..the politicians are NOT going to open that can of worms."

Certainly you are referring to Maryland and not the Northern Neck in your above statement. Surely, if you served on the committee to which you proudly referred you would have population figures which would decisively show permanent population figures for the counties of the NN. Not anywhere NEAR being run over w/the above.

Perhaps you should change your hailing port until you can live here for a substantial period of time and come to appreciate the hard working people you are so willing to toss onto the heap. To pop in for a while & then take off merrily for another environ in your boat is cavalier to the nth degree.


I posted the letter as a way of garnering support for a SOLUTION, not recrimination and blaming of either side. Neither will solve the PROBLEM. I thought better of the folks on the site....I guess I was wrong.

If you have no positive information or perspective, then it does not advance the dialogue to continually place blame. It's easy to pronounce blame then smugly go home and leave the situation as it is....or worse. That certainly does not promote a search for a solution.

I am seeking to help the working folks. Maybe the smug know-it-alls will understand this and stop with the blaming (WHOEVER is at fault...) and get with those who want to work on both sides.

It will be difficult...people won't listen....skewed 'facts' etc etc etc...

Remember the people who will be affected...not Omega...and try to HELP, not BLAME.

 

[Fred Villiard]

For whatever the cause of the menhaden decline, you can not keep harvesting more than are hatched. You need to cut back to where the fish are able to sustain their population.

Granted polution has alot of bearing on the decline of the fisheries, but in the meantime you can not harvest more than the stock can sustain. Omega must cut back their harvest, they have been harvesting more than the stock can sustain ever since they started using spotter planes, and wiping out whole schools.

Everyone must start using some common sense and stop pointing fingers, saying that it is not me. If the harvest is not reduced now aqnd continues at the current rate there will not be a fishery in a few years.

Fred Villiard

 

[elle]

For whatever the cause of the menhaden decline, you can not keep harvesting more than are hatched. You need to cut back to where the fish are able to sustain their population.

Granted polution has alot of bearing on the decline of the fisheries, but in the meantime you can not harvest more than the stock can sustain. Omega must cut back their harvest, they have been harvesting more than the stock can sustain ever since they started using spotter planes, and wiping out whole schools.

Everyone must start using some common sense and stop pointing fingers, saying that it is not me. If the harvest is not reduced now aqnd continues at the current rate there will not be a fishery in a few years.

Fred Villiard

I cannot agree more with everything you've said...especially the use of the planes.....that is why I posted in the first place....but this is where the discussion always stops.....and if that is the case (limits only),and if other causes are contributing to the stock depletion, the stocks will continue to decline industry will die. The cause of stock depletion must be found or limits will just prolong the demise of the stock....and the hardworking fishermen will still be deprived of their livelihood.

 

[Bad Obsession]

Either way....If the stock is depleting then you need to impose limits and not let the industry control themselves. Sorry, but this is an issue that needs some work. I understand the part of the companies in the Northern Neck, especially in places like Reedsville.

I was born and raised in the Northern Neck. I worked on the water in my youth. This is not about the big bad conservationists trying to ruin an industry. It is about people trying to save the bay. If the population of the fish are down then you can't continue to harvest them in the numbers you have in the past. There has to be limits.

 

[KD3PC]

"and when most of us know... that the area is simply over run with people, farm run off and sewage..the politicians are NOT going to open that can of worms."

Certainly you are referring to Maryland and not the Northern Neck in your above statement. Surely, if you served on the committee to which you proudly referred you would have population figures which would decisively show permanent population figures for the counties of the NN. Not anywhere NEAR being run over w/the above.

Definitely not the NN, and since MD owns the water right up to my shoreline...they are largely responsible. And since I am not welcome to comment on their initiatives, nor to comment at their hearings (out of state to them and I have no way to solve that, as I will NOT ever move back there) I really do defend my rights to the water, unencumbered by another state.

The NN could teach a lot of counties, cities and states how to best use the water front. They could learn from others about composting toilets and SIPs panels though.

Perhaps you should change your hailing port until you can live here for a substantial period of time and come to appreciate the hard working people you are so willing to toss onto the heap. To pop in for a while & then take off merrily for another environ in your boat is cavalier to the nth degree.

I bought my property in the mid 1970's, and built a ACOE approved pier in the late 1970's. I did not say anything about the working people as I have been one all my life. My hailing port is a proud way of saying I love the NN, and while not a "born here"....after almost 40 years continuous owner ship....I sure am not a "come here"

I deplore what Will Baker and the CBF have become and are doing, or not doing as the case may be as he has been postponing real work on solutions that directly affect me, my slip, my boat, etc for decades.

I posted the letter as a way of garnering support for a SOLUTION, not recrimination and blaming of either side. Neither will solve the PROBLEM. I thought better of the folks on the site....I guess I was wrong.

The solution is not a simple one, and I don't see recrimination and blame as much as I see reality slapping differing groups of people, with different goals on an issue, in between the eyes.

If you have no positive information or perspective, then it does not advance the dialogue to continually place blame. It's easy to pronounce blame then smugly go home and leave the situation as it is....or worse. That certainly does not promote a search for a solution.

I did not smugly do anything or place blame, just offered that a solution is available, much as it was with rockfish/stripers, crabs and will have to be addressed for oysters. You can't continue to wipe out the thing you want to depend on for a career, never wavering or looking to where your current activity is taking you....whether you want to go there or no.

I am seeking to help the working folks. Maybe the smug know-it-alls will understand this and stop with the blaming (WHOEVER is at fault...) and get with those who want to work on both sides.

Much like the crabbers and the oystermen have had to do, those who work for Omega have to face the reality that on the current path, they will be out of work in three to five years tops.

Your best bet is Wittman, I respect him, he is as knowledgeable as any one and will be honest with you. He has a long family history on the water, as a waterman and is formally trained in marine biology, IIRC. While you may not agree, he has a firm grasp of the problem and what needs to be done. Those in Richmond not so much, those in MD, even less, and those at the CBF even less than that. Omega, as a corp with a charter to make money, is not your friend, nor can they be as objective as you desire.

It will be difficult...people won't listen....skewed 'facts' etc etc etc...

Just because you don't like a fact does not make it less than true. There are no absolutes in this. People will listen, been there and done that, but that is only half the challenge.

Remember the people who will be affected...not Omega...and try to HELP, not BLAME.

those folks know/knew what they were getting in to with Omega years back, and know that at the current rate of fishing, the end is near, the tipping point was achieved almost a decade ago, and everyone continues to delay ANY decisions.

Many that live in Reedville, come heres for the most part, would love to have that smell gone and the factory as well, and have just as strong a lobby as you hope to build. Money talks....and they have it...just a few short years ago, there were many "million dollar" homes built in Reedville, that now may be worth $250K on a good day...those folks just moved along to one of their other homes, elsewhere.

 

[All U Get]

Aw crap, I'm sitting here reading the posts just after taking my daily dose of Omega-3. There is truth in all the posts and hence the problem. Using modern technology to swollow up a previously illusive prey is the issue. Using planes and sonar to locate the stock is like fishing in a bucket. Some control is needed no matter who does it. As an end-user I feel pretty lousy about supporting the industry that would cause this decline. I'll keep tuned in.
All U Get

 

[Gunni]

A review of 20 studies covering nearly 70,000 participants finds no statistically significant evidence that supplementation with omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs), commonly referred to as fish oil supplements, is linked to a lower risk of heart attack, stroke, or premature death.

Journal of the American Medical Association

 

[Lost Parent]

You are right this is not the right place for this discussion

 

[Chris Patterson]

kinda getting close to the war room, huh?