Help!!! While working on my 260 this evening I happen to glance at the bottom of the rudder and notice a very large split along its base. (see the picture.) The boat was in the water over Memorial Day weekend but did not have this split when we towed it home. Last year I drug it through some sand in a shallow spot on the river, but it did not appear to be through the skin. The last day or two it's been in the mid 80s here in Vancouver, but I can't think that any water in the core would have boiled and created steam pressure and it sure didn't freeze. The rudder was in the sun, it's now in the garage!! Short of taking it to a local marine repair, which is probably what I'll do, what can be done to close up and seal this split? The starboart side of the split seems loose and can be moved to open or close the split. You can see the foam about half an inch down in the center of the split. Any suggestions are welcome. I'm not experienced working with fiberglass. Brigg
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Hate to say it but!
It appears that the rudder has dragged at some stage and worn thru the glass. I reckon what has happened is water has entered thru the crack. The foam has become saturated and expanded resulting in the crack??? Anyone else on my side?
It appears that the rudder has dragged at some stage and worn thru the glass. I reckon what has happened is water has entered thru the crack. The foam has become saturated and expanded resulting in the crack??? Anyone else on my side?
Freezing
My experience has been that these rudders take on water. When the water inside freezes over the winter you get the split. It may not be evident until you get it in the water and the foam swells. I found a good way to check for water is to expose the top of the rudder under your floor cover while in the water. Step on the top of the rudder. It should give way. There is usually enough play in the fit of the rudder to allow it to move downward. If it is not water filled, it will float and stepping on the top, it will give way and will tell you that it is floating. If it doesn't move, don't panic. Your rudder may not have enough play for this test. Mine does. I learned this after 2 rudders and 2 more rudder workovers which included barrier coating. I am convinced on drilling holes in the bottom to allow it to dry our over the winter. Also, I heard putting a black plastic cover will aid in absorbing heat and allowing it to dry while openened up. Mike D
My experience has been that these rudders take on water. When the water inside freezes over the winter you get the split. It may not be evident until you get it in the water and the foam swells. I found a good way to check for water is to expose the top of the rudder under your floor cover while in the water. Step on the top of the rudder. It should give way. There is usually enough play in the fit of the rudder to allow it to move downward. If it is not water filled, it will float and stepping on the top, it will give way and will tell you that it is floating. If it doesn't move, don't panic. Your rudder may not have enough play for this test. Mine does. I learned this after 2 rudders and 2 more rudder workovers which included barrier coating. I am convinced on drilling holes in the bottom to allow it to dry our over the winter. Also, I heard putting a black plastic cover will aid in absorbing heat and allowing it to dry while openened up. Mike D
Paint did it, Maybe?
The owners manual says not to paint the rudder and if it is painted to use a light colored paint, or somthing quite close to that anyway. Seems the sun heats them up and causes them to seperate. Mine was already painted when I bought it and keep it in the water so it is painted as well. when it is on the trailer I cover it with white plastic bags and secure them with duct tape. I suspect a split rudder is somthing we are all going to deal with sooner or later. Let us know what he outcome is.
The owners manual says not to paint the rudder and if it is painted to use a light colored paint, or somthing quite close to that anyway. Seems the sun heats them up and causes them to seperate. Mine was already painted when I bought it and keep it in the water so it is painted as well. when it is on the trailer I cover it with white plastic bags and secure them with duct tape. I suspect a split rudder is somthing we are all going to deal with sooner or later. Let us know what he outcome is.
Fix It
I have a H26. One day I noticed the forward edge of my rudder was split. I contacted Hunter and they sent me a new rudder, but it was the wrong one. I took digital pictures of both rudders and sent them to Hunter. They realized they had sent the wrong rudder and sent another, identical to the first. Finally the super said he'd personally send me the correct rudder. I got the third one -- identical to the first two! Come to find out they were sending me rudders for a 260 vs. a 26. I returned all the rudders to Hunter. Then I cut open the entire leading edge of my split rudder and found out it was hollow. Water has seeped into the hollow spaces from somewhere and must have frozen and split the rudder. So, with the opening to the hollow spot exposed, I poured it full of fiber glass -- took about 3 quarts as I recall, clamped it into it's original shape, let it dry, sanded off the rough edges and painted it. I think its better now than when it was new. It is heavier though. Good luck with fixin' your rudder! Jim Schaff
I have a H26. One day I noticed the forward edge of my rudder was split. I contacted Hunter and they sent me a new rudder, but it was the wrong one. I took digital pictures of both rudders and sent them to Hunter. They realized they had sent the wrong rudder and sent another, identical to the first. Finally the super said he'd personally send me the correct rudder. I got the third one -- identical to the first two! Come to find out they were sending me rudders for a 260 vs. a 26. I returned all the rudders to Hunter. Then I cut open the entire leading edge of my split rudder and found out it was hollow. Water has seeped into the hollow spaces from somewhere and must have frozen and split the rudder. So, with the opening to the hollow spot exposed, I poured it full of fiber glass -- took about 3 quarts as I recall, clamped it into it's original shape, let it dry, sanded off the rough edges and painted it. I think its better now than when it was new. It is heavier though. Good luck with fixin' your rudder! Jim Schaff
good suggestions
You probably have drug the rudder and unforntunately water got in. that ususally happens when you break the skin. Mark is correct. Now stand it up, let the water run out and let it dry for a couple of weeks with it up in a warm dry place. Then do what jeff did and fix it. I will suggest that you coat that portion with epoxy barrier coatings at least 3-5 and then paint the sucker. Crazy Dave Condon
You probably have drug the rudder and unforntunately water got in. that ususally happens when you break the skin. Mark is correct. Now stand it up, let the water run out and let it dry for a couple of weeks with it up in a warm dry place. Then do what jeff did and fix it. I will suggest that you coat that portion with epoxy barrier coatings at least 3-5 and then paint the sucker. Crazy Dave Condon
Hey Crazy Dave
I cannot remember where I heard about about the paint on the rudder. Should that a concern? Down here on the gulf coast we would be much more concerned about the sun than the thing freezing.
I cannot remember where I heard about about the paint on the rudder. Should that a concern? Down here on the gulf coast we would be much more concerned about the sun than the thing freezing.
It is a personal choice
I suggest it as a preventative matter whenever the gel has been broken and there is bare fiberglass. Remember, fiberglass is pourous and and water with fibergoose will cause a chemical recation. Just one opinion from old snarly. by the way, I met one guy today and he was surprised who I am and said I had slammed him but as I mentioned, do not take it that way but realize I am just an old salty twerp but he did finally say I was correct. I just want to let you guys know that it is not my character to insult you all but it is only opinions based on experience. Where I do get nuts is those who risk hurting themselves which I do care about you sailors. Bye Crazyz
I suggest it as a preventative matter whenever the gel has been broken and there is bare fiberglass. Remember, fiberglass is pourous and and water with fibergoose will cause a chemical recation. Just one opinion from old snarly. by the way, I met one guy today and he was surprised who I am and said I had slammed him but as I mentioned, do not take it that way but realize I am just an old salty twerp but he did finally say I was correct. I just want to let you guys know that it is not my character to insult you all but it is only opinions based on experience. Where I do get nuts is those who risk hurting themselves which I do care about you sailors. Bye Crazyz
Rudder in repair
Today I took the split rudder to Schooner Creek Boat Works at Jantzen Beach in Portland. After conferring with Mike Ward of SCBW, a really knowledgable friendly guy, they will be rebuilding the lower end of the rudder. It did have water in the foam core and they will cut off the lower 3 inches to better let it dry. Next they will rebuild the bottom end with solid glass and lead shot, then finish it with a stainless strap around the front and bottom edge. Mike estimated about 5 pounds of extra weight should give it enough buoyancy to still float but make it much easier to swing down into sailing position. Best news it should take less than 4 hours work and come in under $250, and they'll let me take pictures of the surgery. I'll post them here and on my web site, which I'm updating. You should have seen the hulls and crossbeams they were building for a 56' catamaran. Made my repair job seem much smaller. If this modification works I may try to encourage Hunter to work some of it into their design. Are you listening Greg Emmerson? To be continued soon... Brigg
Today I took the split rudder to Schooner Creek Boat Works at Jantzen Beach in Portland. After conferring with Mike Ward of SCBW, a really knowledgable friendly guy, they will be rebuilding the lower end of the rudder. It did have water in the foam core and they will cut off the lower 3 inches to better let it dry. Next they will rebuild the bottom end with solid glass and lead shot, then finish it with a stainless strap around the front and bottom edge. Mike estimated about 5 pounds of extra weight should give it enough buoyancy to still float but make it much easier to swing down into sailing position. Best news it should take less than 4 hours work and come in under $250, and they'll let me take pictures of the surgery. I'll post them here and on my web site, which I'm updating. You should have seen the hulls and crossbeams they were building for a 56' catamaran. Made my repair job seem much smaller. If this modification works I may try to encourage Hunter to work some of it into their design. Are you listening Greg Emmerson? To be continued soon... Brigg
Had a friend with a keel 260 who cut off...
...4 or 5 inches of the rudder because it increased his draft too much (didn't like dragging it.) The boat sailed just as well since that 86 year old teenager was still able to drive it like a Sunfish. However, no garantee that the swing keeled version would do as well. I thought it a bad idea as the rudder dragging would give warning of an impending grounding. That he did to us just as a squal line was approaching! alan
...4 or 5 inches of the rudder because it increased his draft too much (didn't like dragging it.) The boat sailed just as well since that 86 year old teenager was still able to drive it like a Sunfish. However, no garantee that the swing keeled version would do as well. I thought it a bad idea as the rudder dragging would give warning of an impending grounding. That he did to us just as a squal line was approaching! alan
cutting off rudder by 4-5 inches
I am not a naval architect but cutting off the rudder so it will not drag is the funniest unsafe thing I have heard of lately. If you are anticiapting doing this or anyone else, God love ya but for me, the rudder was designed by experienced archetects who have been in the industry for years and I rely on those guys. It is unwise to do that. Serious Dave Condon
I am not a naval architect but cutting off the rudder so it will not drag is the funniest unsafe thing I have heard of lately. If you are anticiapting doing this or anyone else, God love ya but for me, the rudder was designed by experienced archetects who have been in the industry for years and I rely on those guys. It is unwise to do that. Serious Dave Condon
Will rebuild the rudder
Perhaps, I was not clear. Schooner Creek will cut off the bottom 3 inches to facilitate the drying of the inside foam core, NOT TO SHORTEN THE RUDDER. They will then rebuild the same 3 inches to the same designed shape only using solid glass, not foam. The rudder will end up the same water dynamic shape as the factory rudder. I disagree that the added weight in the bottom of the rudder is bad, and since it's my boat I get the last word. I have removed 90 pounds of batteries from the stern compartment and adding 5 pounds of weight at the bottom of the rudder will not change the balance of the boat. Hunter themselves, told me they use to make the rudder with a heavy solid core that did not float. They changed it because too many people complained about having to lift the rudder when storing it upright for trailering, and the foam core is cheaper to built (probably the main reason). I would have thought you would have known that "crazy". If it doesn't work out well, I'll be the first to let everyone know. If it does than I was right. I'm relying on the "knowledgable" advice of Mike from SCBW. Brigg
Perhaps, I was not clear. Schooner Creek will cut off the bottom 3 inches to facilitate the drying of the inside foam core, NOT TO SHORTEN THE RUDDER. They will then rebuild the same 3 inches to the same designed shape only using solid glass, not foam. The rudder will end up the same water dynamic shape as the factory rudder. I disagree that the added weight in the bottom of the rudder is bad, and since it's my boat I get the last word. I have removed 90 pounds of batteries from the stern compartment and adding 5 pounds of weight at the bottom of the rudder will not change the balance of the boat. Hunter themselves, told me they use to make the rudder with a heavy solid core that did not float. They changed it because too many people complained about having to lift the rudder when storing it upright for trailering, and the foam core is cheaper to built (probably the main reason). I would have thought you would have known that "crazy". If it doesn't work out well, I'll be the first to let everyone know. If it does than I was right. I'm relying on the "knowledgable" advice of Mike from SCBW. Brigg
I am not advocating chopping some off the bottom.
Just letting ya know what has been done. Supposedly Hunter was notified and gave the ok for the rudder mod. alan
Just letting ya know what has been done. Supposedly Hunter was notified and gave the ok for the rudder mod. alan
straps/skids
I have been looking for some sort of straps or skids for the rudder and the swing keel. Anybody found a source for this?
I have been looking for some sort of straps or skids for the rudder and the swing keel. Anybody found a source for this?
Rudder preferences
since we're throwing out opinions on rudders, I'll inject my 2 cents worth. I have one of the heavier rudders on my boat that just barely floats. I've also sailed on a number of newer 260's with the lighter rudders, helping people get familier with their boats. I much prefer the heavier version, which as a side benefit, doesn't take as heavey a spring, bungi, or whatever to hold down. Imagine the load on the rudder and support bracket, if the rudder were to pop up on a windy day. Jeff Peltier
since we're throwing out opinions on rudders, I'll inject my 2 cents worth. I have one of the heavier rudders on my boat that just barely floats. I've also sailed on a number of newer 260's with the lighter rudders, helping people get familier with their boats. I much prefer the heavier version, which as a side benefit, doesn't take as heavey a spring, bungi, or whatever to hold down. Imagine the load on the rudder and support bracket, if the rudder were to pop up on a windy day. Jeff Peltier
Oh come on Dave. Don't try to be serious!
Why I've been cutting my rudder ( OK actually grinding it down) for two years now with no ill affects.
Why I've been cutting my rudder ( OK actually grinding it down) for two years now with no ill affects.
Pow Wow
frank did modify his rudder somewhat but did not really shorten it. Like I said, I aint no naval archetecht. Heck I cant spell. So what but maybe you all can figure me oout since I cannot myself. I like ole Frank but at least his rear end is not as big as mine. To shorten any rudder from its designed length is inviting trouble. I do rely on the expertise at Hunter on this issue. However, it is only my opinion which some will disagree with. Oh what the heck. Crazy Dave Condon
frank did modify his rudder somewhat but did not really shorten it. Like I said, I aint no naval archetecht. Heck I cant spell. So what but maybe you all can figure me oout since I cannot myself. I like ole Frank but at least his rear end is not as big as mine. To shorten any rudder from its designed length is inviting trouble. I do rely on the expertise at Hunter on this issue. However, it is only my opinion which some will disagree with. Oh what the heck. Crazy Dave Condon
Rudder rebuild continues
Today Willie Wadell, one of the crew at Schooner Creek Boat Works, filled the bottom of my rudeer with 3 pounds of lead shot, set in epoxy, (see picture). They were not very impressed with the quality of the rudder design. The fiberglass shell, built in two halves, is very thin, about 1/4 inch, epoxied together, then injected with closed cell foam. It split right at the seam after I "sanded" off the paint on the river bottom. Tomorrow they will build up the bottom surface of the rudder with glass and then install the metal strip. By Monday I should have a new and improved rudder. More pictures to come. Brigg
Today Willie Wadell, one of the crew at Schooner Creek Boat Works, filled the bottom of my rudeer with 3 pounds of lead shot, set in epoxy, (see picture). They were not very impressed with the quality of the rudder design. The fiberglass shell, built in two halves, is very thin, about 1/4 inch, epoxied together, then injected with closed cell foam. It split right at the seam after I "sanded" off the paint on the river bottom. Tomorrow they will build up the bottom surface of the rudder with glass and then install the metal strip. By Monday I should have a new and improved rudder. More pictures to come. Brigg
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