Help me think this through (new boat purchase)

dmax · 2025-03-13T07:34:26-0700

Determining what boat to buy is a difficult decision. If you really think you will use the boat properly, go for the C 320. It has many desirable features the other ones don't have (open transom, huge cockpit, modern interior, rear stateroom...) that you will get to enjoy. And it will be much easier to sell when that day comes. There were a lot of 320's built so you should be able to find a good one. At 30 years old, sails, rigging, canvas and electronics will need to be updated if not done so already.

shemandr · 2025-03-13T07:54:00-0700

Don't worry about making a mistake. Buying a boat is a mistake already. You should try to buy the mistake you can handle.

Project_Mayhem · 2025-03-13T11:41:48-0700

Wait for the survey before debating further. Don't react until there's information to react to

shemandr · 2025-03-13T12:36:59-0700

And don’t act on the oral presentation of the surveyor. Wait for the written.

David in Sandusky · 2025-03-13T13:20:15-0700

A Catalina 30 was the alternative to the Hunter 27 we bought in 2000. (Went for the shoal keel on the Hunter on the advice of our marina manager.)

We chartered a C 30 from the 80's twice for a week in the San Juans. Simply put, it's a great boat! It would certainly meet your needs. I wouldn't worry about the age of the boat.

It's up to the two of you if its advantages are worth another $20,000 plus the price of the "stuff" you want. I would not worry a lot about bringing it around to Tawas. If you have the time to pick good weather days, you can handle it, and the ports along the way would make a good first cruise. We bought a day lesson from an instructor in the port where we bought the boat to help us understand the issues sailing a larger boat. (Our 40 years experience was in Sunfish and Rhodes 19s.) No Big Surprises, but my confidence took a real boost.

In either case, the survey is critical! You can include a mechanic to check out the engine if you want the input.

Whatever you choose, you have a lot of fun ahead of you!

Fair winds and following seas!

Foswick · 2025-03-13T13:42:41-0700

I want to be careful not to express anything that could be construed as advice. Recreational boats are not logical purchases, so advice is pretty meaningless. But, I will offer some things to think about.

Our first boat was a Venture 22. We loved that little boat and practically lived on her for a summer or two. We sailed her all over Puget Sound and the San Juans and had great times. Of course, she wasn't big enough to stand up in and had only a little portable camp toilet. So, after a couple of years, we got a Catalina 27 - big enough to have an actual galley, some elbow room, a proper head, and room to take guest out. Also, we wanted something that didn't require a lot of maintenance and which we could crash on the rocks and not feel too bad about it.

As much as we loved our Catalina, we frequently missed (and still miss) the simplicity of our our old 22. There were fewer systems, we were small enough to slip into just about anywhere, and life was just generally simpler. We actually sailed our Catalina for decades and still own her. Getting older, we have become more in want to things like a heating furnace, additional storage, maybe a shower, and an oven to bake cookies in.

I have always sailed with a service dog, but they have always stayed off of the foredeck. My current dog is braver and a bit more inclined to stay right with me wherever I go. Last year, about this time, he and I spent a few days living on the boat at the marina, working on projects, without my wife there. It became pretty clear that our Catalina was not safe. The deck was too exposed for either of us to be up there, even at the dock. So, that was the clincher. We needed a boat with some more, less exposed deck space.

We bought our current boat (Fuji 32) and were excited to get many of the amenities we had pined after for years. We now have hot and cold running water, a shower, diesel heating furnace, stove/oven, autopilot, radar, powered windlass, etc. The deck is just wide and flat enough to satisfy our safety concerns and there is enough storage that we no longer have to remove 10 items to get at the one thing we wanted.

Are we happier? I have to regretfully admit that we are not. We actually enjoyed the Catalina more. She met our needs and didn't ask much in return. I never worried about getting into or out of congested areas because she handled like a dinghy when I needed that, but was still stable enough to handle the occasional surprise gale. And, even when we were out on our Catalina, we frequently missed the good old days on our 22.

So ... all this to say that bigger boats with more amenities have definite draws. But, in our case, they haven't delivered more happiness. I wouldn't say we are likely to go back to a smaller/simpler boat. But, if I am honest, I will admit that each time we have moved up to a bigger boat, I have had a certain amount of regret for having done so.

To frame this, it is important to understand a few things about my personality. First, I do not really enjoy boat maintenance. I do enjoy to occasional special project, so long as I get to choose the timing, when I am inspired. I really hate routine tasks that I have to do. Real life has enough of those. So, the less a boat demands of me, the better.

Another thing is that I love the actual act of sailing. While I rather prefer to go someplace and stay there, when it comes to sailing, I like to feel what I am doing. Our Fuji is the first boat I have owned that doesn't have tiller steering and although I am making my peace with it, I am not a fan of the wheel. I much prefer the feel, immediacy, and purity of a tiller. When you add a big heavy boat to this mix, it feels more like driving a bus than sailing.

That said, she is not without her advantages. Properly trimmed, she tracks on a rail and isn't particularly bothered with chop under about 3 feet. And, there is something nice about the smell of freshly-baked cookies against the backdrop of an isolated cove.

So, it is a matter of finding enjoyment in different ways.

If you move up to a much larger boat, you will gain quite a bit, but it will cost you in other ways. Very possibly, many of the things you currently enjoy about sailing will be less palpable. But, you might find new things.

I think that each person has a perfect size/configuration, but that is ALWAYS a compromise. The common advice to get the smallest boat you can stand is really solid. Any boat will give some and take some.

Urban Hermit · 2025-03-13T16:18:16-0700

Don't buy a boat that doesn't sweep you off your feet. "If in [any] doubt, don't." Of course being swept off your feet, love-at-first-sight, is the most dangerous reaction you can have, so though I believe you should wait for it to happen, that should do no more than be the impetus to exercising full due diligence -- marine survey, assessment of the financial aspect, how often you'll use it, yadda yadda. You gave me pause by writing "I just wish I were more excited about it." An omen? My only other contribution is "In general, diesels are much more satisfactory, and safer, boat engines than gasoline."

quadrille38 · 2025-03-14T08:52:04-0700

john6206 said:
Even after editing, this is longer than I thought it would be. I think I'm just trying to organize my own thoughts.
I'd welcome any feedback.

I've been sailing 25 years or so. Trailer boats. I've owned three sailboats, my current ride is a Capri 18 - love it on the water - hate it at the boat ramp - sleeping in it is easy for one and challenging for two.

At 59 years old, I'm kinda thinking if I'm ever going to buy a bigger boat, there will never be a better time than now.

The boat we are having surveyed tomorrow is a 1983 Catalina 30.
It seems to have been very well cared for, the current owner has put a lot of time and money into it, and it has all the stuff on our "needs" list and most of our wants list. Newish sails, dodger, Bimini, cockpit cushions, electronic suite, cockpit table . . . it's got all the stuff. My own inspection tells me that there are no compromised decks or compression issues - but there was a lot of snow on top of it, so the moisture meter was useless. The 42 year old Atomic 4 gives me a bit of pause. I'm told they are easy to work on - I have zero experience with engines. I have changed my own oil if that counts for anything.

It's also about 75 miles from our new slip in Tawas MI, an easy 3 day harbor hopping cruise on a boat we are unfamiliar with on "the big water" (we mostly keep the Capri in bays).

And at less than $20k, it's super easily within our budget, so any surprises can be handled.

It seems like a logical purchase - I just wish I were more excited about it.
It might be the boat's age or my own, but I worry that I'm making a mistake, I really had no second thoughts about buying the Capri.

__________
The boat that turns my head is a Catalina 320 in Kenosha WI. It's 12 years newer (95), and more than twice as much money.
Doesn't seem to have a lot of the "stuff," the Bimini is important to my wife - cockpit cushions are important to me - those kinds of things can add up. Also, a 95 is still a 30 year old boat, and therefore might have its own problems. I don't know about updates - are the sails 30 years old? I haven't looked into it much. There are practical things that I like about the 320, smaller headsail, diesel engine, walk through transom with sugar scoop . . . the review in practical sailor says that it is "aimed squarely at the middle aged couple who wants to cruise and has no interest in racing" - that's us (although I'm only middle aged if I'm someday going to be 120). Mostly I just think it's a sweet looking ride.

It's more than twice as much money, and it's about a 400 mile delivery cruise ... on a boat we are not familiar with - in the big water.

There are also a couple boats in Muskegon MI, (a 350 mile delivery cruise). Saber 30 III and a Newport 31 - one is an 89 the other is 91, I forget which is which.

_________
I enjoy boat projects almost as much as I enjoy sailing. And learning how to maintain an old gas engine on the C-30 might just keep my brain young.
I have some experience sailing on a Catalina 30 and I quite liked it.

And something appeals to me about being an old goat with an old boat. Depending on your definition, it's possible that neither the boat or I qualify yet, but ain't neither of us getting younger. I could develop a curmudgeonly personality and grow a long beard - sit in the cockpit all day smoking a pipe and tying knots and complaining about all these damned fool kids.

I don't know - I guess the surveyor will either put my mind at ease or rule this one out - but we are going ahead with the survey.

Thoughts?

OK so boats are never a GOOD investment unless you pack in family fun, lifetime memories, unwinding from the stress of life and work. With those included, the return on investment is immeasurable.

As to your age, far from old! And frankly as you do age, bigger boats (to a point) get easier. They are more forgiving, have more comfortable accommodation, take weather better and give you all a very robust social experience.

When I was 58 we moved from a 34 foot boat to a 38 footer. Bigger, heavier, more comfortable, better living accommodation. Comforts like air conditioning / heating, better bathroom / showering, and best of all, more modern systems. Roller furling main and head sail mean I don’t have to go up on deck to reef a sail. And consequently because reefing is so easy, we take sail in and out more often rather than leaving it up past the time when we should. P

Now yes bigger does take more time, effort and cost for things like bottom painting and waxing, but that’s once a year and not so bad. With a smaller boat (which is great by the way) you have to trailer it, rig it, sail, derig, and trailer again. My experience was that because of all that, I tended to go only when the weather was absolutely perfect and therefore used it less. With a boat in the slip,we can zip out for an hour sail very easily.

As to which boat, that’s going to depend heavily on your preferences, budget and condition. But I would say, get the biggest you can reasonable afford. You will be happier and not hit with 2 foot itis.
I started with a 22, jumped to a 28, then a 34, and now a 38.

On your transit question, none of the trips your describe are insurmountable. Just plan enough time, watch your weather windows and enjoy the journey. The Great Lakes are fabulous sailing and Michigan in particularly has an amazing system of harbors, ports, marinas to make use of. In planning your eventual voyage, join the Great Lakes. Cruising Club. Best source of information ever. Their harbor guide shows every harbor throughout the entire Great Lakes. Information on entering harbors, where to anchor or marina services available, information on the towns, and anything else you will need to have a safe and enjoyable voyage.
Be sure to plan adequate time for the journey so that you are never pressured to go in weather you aren’t comfortable with. For the size boats you are talking about use a 5 mph speed as your calculation guide. That’s a safe way to plan. If the GLCC guide says it’s 30 miles to next harbor plan on it taking 6 hours. That way you can look at weather and determine if it’s going to hold for you that long.
When taking a long passage, we often used the 5 knot rule. We had small children and their tolerance for 10 hour sailing days was zero. So if we couldn’t sail at 5 knots, it was time to motor sail and maintain that 5 knots. Not true sailing, but realistic with kids as the need to GET THERE.
Good luck, have fun shopping !

As to choice of