Help Me Choose A Boat !!

[petecasey]

You’ve all heard the questions before. Fun keep v full, how important is headroom, etc. Well here I am having the toughest time deciding what type of boat to get now, even after all my research!
I am in Santa Barbara CA, and am debating between a full keeled smaller sailboat (Bristol 29), no standing headroom, not a ton of storage, but built like a tank. and a Pearson 32. Both in good condition, clean, willing to do upgrades.

I am mostly worried about investing money into a boat that I may not be excited about in the future. I am in Santa Barbara and I am really looking forward to a lot of Channel Islands trips. Many people say get a cruiser/racer fin keel so you can get there fast and have maneuverability in the small anchorages. On the other hand, I REALLY want to take the boat to Tahiti in the next few years. I will also likely live on the sailboat on a mooring here. The big ocean trip makes me want to say full keel, built solid, simple sailboat. But the rest of the time says fin keel will do just fine, and as commonly stated - often a boat handle way more than the crew! I don’t want to skimp on my boat strength, but I also won’t be cruising full time for the next five years also.

I’ve sailed and raced plenty. But there really are two camps and I want to source more information based on my own situation.

 

[Davidasailor26]

I’d have a hard time sacrificing the standing headroom and live aboard comfort for years just in expectation of an offshore passage in the future.

When coastal cruising and living aboard there’s little doubt the more modern design would be better. When making the blue water passage there is a general feeling the heavier build and full keel are better, but there is some debate on whether a more modern faster hull could be better there too. So for me the overall balance would favor the modern design.

 

[Leeward Rail]

I am mostly worried about investing money into a boat that I may not be excited about in the future

"Invest" is not a word when talking sailboats.LOL They are money pits and you rarely break even if you sell them. You usually lose money.

Different boats for different tasks.

I would never sacrifice headroom and comfort (unless you were looking at small trailerable boats) That gets old fast and it is guaranteed you will want a bigger boat with headroom and comfort and storage etc.

Why just those 2 boats? Plenty of reasonably fast, full keel, boats with full headroom.

Have you sailed the boats or at least sailed similar ones?

 

[Justin_NSA]

No headroom would get old quick. The Bristol has a gas engine. The Pearson is diesel. Here's a review of the Pearson

Pearson 32 Boat Review - Practical Sailor

Since 1974, Practical Sailor’s independent testing has taken the guesswork out of boat and gear buying.

www.practical-sailor.com

 

[FastOlson]

Look at an Ericson 32-3... Fast, solid, comfortable, and sister ships have done oodles of offshore miles.

Also- how tall are you?

 

[jssailem]

What is the issue with the Cal34 you list?

Pearson and Ericson made good boats.

If I was considering an ocean passage, I would examine what the boat will be like, sequestered in side riding out a storm, getting knocked down. Will I feel secure or be flying around the cabin like a missile looking for a crash landing.

Seems you are conflicted. Perhaps you are really looking for 2 different boats.

My suggestion, read about Storm Tactics. Lin and Larry Pardey have written a good book on the subject. In it's 3rd edition. It might help you with your considerations in valuing the boats you are looking at.

 

[dlochner]

Creature comforts and head room are really important when cruising or living aboard. The difference in sea kindliness between the two boats will be small.

Sailing even a half knot faster on a long passage can make a big difference. Consider a half knot over 24 hours amounts to 12 miles or about 2 hours of sailing. On a two week passage that's an extra day at sea. Time on passage and safety at sea or inversely related, less time means a safer passage.

After the structural integrity of the boat and its equipment, crew comfort ranks high on the list of desirable boat qualities, followed by safety below (are there sufficient hand holds, ability to secure equipment, etc), and storage space for spares, food, water, and fuel.

 

[petecasey]

I thought that I was going to own a Cal 34, and had been taking with someone about buying his, so I listed that when signing up. That deal fell through and then I really started thinking about trying to get the boat that would be best suited for offshore, so I started thinking about the Bristol.

It’s between these two boats right now because they are both available, and I’ve been debating for so long I feel like I want to just say yes to something and go sail! I have also been leaning towards the modern design now, because it suits what type of sailing I will be doing right away, at least.

 

[CarlN]

Get your Channel Islands and "live on a mooring" boat now. Either of your choices are good for that sort of cruising but I agree the Pearson headroom is much better for liveaboard. Gain experience. Find what you like - everyone is different. These boasts are old boats so you are likely to sell it for what you bought it for in two years if you maintain it well. Don't try to buy your Tahiti boat now- classic novice error. While fine coastal boats neither a 40 year old Bristol 29 or Pearson 32 would be most peoples' first choice (or in their first 25 choices) to cross the Pacific.

 

[shemandr]

I think the choice between a full keel and a fin keel boils down to if you are going to sail solo a lot. If solo I would go with the full keel. It will track better for longer distances and need less attention.
With regard to headroom I think it's true that most live boards spend a lot of time in the cockpit or seated down below. I'm 6' and have owned boats with less than 6' headroom. I didn't live on them but it wasn't as big a deal as most think. What makes a good livaboard to me is a lot of storage. Having to move stuff around is very annoying and will have you standing up down below a lot.

 

[jssailem]

If you do any study of open water cruising, you'll hear repeated over and over do not make critical decisions when you are tired.

In sailing fatigue sets in when you sail for long hours and fail to get decent rest. Solo sailing you never get decent rest in open ocean. SO you need to have a boat that gives you the best opportunity. For that to happen you need a boat that is "sea kindly". Ted Brewer developed what he calls a "Comfort Ratio".

Comfort Ratio: ​

This is a ratio created by Ted Brewer as a measure of motion comfort. It provides a reasonable comparison between yachts of similar size and type. It is based on the fact that the faster the motion the more upsetting it is to the average person. Consider, though, that the typical summertime coastal cruiser will rarely encounter the wind and seas that an ocean going yacht will meet.​

Numbers below 20 indicate a lightweight racing boat;​

20 to 30 indicates a coastal cruiser;​

30 to 40 indicates a moderate bluewater cruising boat;​

40 to 50 indicates a heavy bluewater boat;​

over 50 indicates an extremely heavy bluewater boat.​

Comfort ratio = D ÷ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x Beam^1.33), where displacement is expressed in pounds, and length is expressed in feet.​

This is open water comfort not sitting around the islands sipping Rum Drinks.
The Pearson 32 has a comfort ratio of 23, and the Bristol 29 a ratio of 27. While both will make good 'Coastal Cruisers' they both will be bobbing like a cork on the open ocean.

Perhaps you should be exploring the boats listed on Bluewaterboats.org - Sailboat reviews for offshore sailing.

 

[petecasey]

Thanks for all this! I am probably going to be single handing a lot. I’m hoping not to, but that’s how it shakes down sometimes so I am planning on it.

Ihave definitely explored those boats on bluewaterboats , I amsomewhat Confused on comfort ratio though. The Bristol 27 is on that website, and it has a comfort ratio of 29, so only 2 points higher than the Bristol 29. Seems like almost an identical boat, but it isn’t listed on that website.

Headroom seems like a toss-up. I could be fine, or I could hate it. Seems like I won’t know until I spend a week or more on the boat

 

[DayDreamer41]

Personally I would go for the bigger more room, the offshore trip can be accomplished with either and space on a voyage is a premium when considering the outfitting required to do an offshore passage.

 

[jssailem]

Ocean passages need storage. Water is a critical item.
I suspect looking at Attainable Adventure Cruising www.morganscloud.com might be helpful. They recently put together articles about the needs of cruising in boats on open water passages.

 

[Tally Ho]

I think you really need to ask yourself whether or not you will be sailing to Tahiti in the near future.

I long for a heavy-displacement, full keel live-aboard boat, as I have dreams of sailing the Great Lakes, then both coasts, eventually Alaska and Hawaii.

But my wife certainly isn’t coming along for the ride! So my reality is that my coastal cruiser O’Day 322 gives me plenty of joy now, day sailing, occasional overnights, a good “dog house” if Mrs. kicks me out once in a while, fast enough to give my buddies a challenge on their Hunter 33’s.

If my status ever changed and I could sail the Great Lakes for a summer, head out to the East or West coast as a live-aboard sailor, I would sell my practical, fun, fast O’Day 322 and buy a Moody 43 or a pilot house with an inside helm station…

So, you just need to ask yourself if you are really going to need a heavy displacement, blue water boat? Anytime soon?


Greg

 

[Will Gilmore]

With regard to headroom I think it's true that most live boards spend a lot of time in the cockpit or seated down below. I'm 6' and have owned boats with less than 6' headroom. I didn't live on them but it wasn't as big a deal as most think.

I tend to agree, you move from seat to seat, but what might get old is having to open the hatch just to pull up a pair of pants in the morning.

The sailing characteristics of a fin keel have advantages and disadvantages. For ocean passages, you are going to be using a steering vane or A.P. Balanced helms are important no matter what type of sailing you do.

-Will

 

[capta]

Almost everyone I know who has cruised for any length of time has either bought and sold two boats before settling on a third boat that suits their needs better than the previous two. Or, they're not really happy with their choice and wished they'd done more sailing before buying that 'final' boat.
How can you pick the right boat for you until you have enough experience living aboard to be an educated consumer? I spent much of my early sailing days racing, so my first boat was a full on racing boat with 22 bags of sails and little comfort and storage space. How did I ever expect to sail that boat with my wife, when a dozen or so raced her to Hawaii?
Sailing agility is, in my opinion, secondary to livability. Aesthetics are way down the list. It is fine to sail a nice looking boat, but if one is buying a boat with a bowsprit, a clipper bow and a lot of shear just because she tickles the eye, then if that person decides to cruise and live aboard, they may regret that choice if she is downright uncomfortable underway or in a rolly anchorage.
Therefor, I consider livability to be number one on the list for any boat one is considering moving onto. 98% of the live aboard boats sit at anchor, on a mooring or at the dock much more than they sail, even long distance cruisers. You want your boat to be a comfortable home, with a good galley to cook meals in, with plenty of storage for your personal gear, spares and boat gear. A comfortable bed, preferable one with an off the shelf size mattress (custom mattresses are very expensive), that you don't have to be on to make, is a real plus.
If your eventual goal is to get off the dock (no air conditioning) and head to the tropics, then ventilation is a huge consideration.
Just a few things you might want to consider before buy a boat to live aboard.

 

[DayDreamer41]

@capta "A comfortable bed, preferable one with an off the shelf size mattress (custom mattresses are very expensive), that you don't have to be on to make, is a real plus." Very true indeed!

 

[FastOlson]

@capta "A comfortable bed, preferable one with an off the shelf size mattress (custom mattresses are very expensive), that you don't have to be on to make, is a real plus." Very true indeed!

Getting a good night's sleep when living aboard for a month at a time is also important for us who have not "moved aboard".
Be careful about trying to compare boats when the only info you will get from a broker or an ad is vague.... "full standing headroom" often means for someone under 5'8"... ! and their descriptions of sleeping areas are even more vague or misleading... or both.
We have a long thread over on the Ericson owners' site where actual measurements of sleeping areas are stated for most of the models. I wonder if other owners' groups have done this?

I recall that before we bought out boat, we both stretched out in each berth, to be sure that there was really enough room for us. That simple "test" eliminated a number of other boats from our shopping list, for sure.

 

[petecasey]

Lots of you are raising good points. It is tough to decide on a boat when on the one hand I want to live on it at a mooring, but I also want to prep it to go on a long distance cruise. Trade offs are to be expected when choosing a boat in my budget (very modest!), but they are very real.
One more question I have is that of speed. Some people tell me that those old boats stink solely because they are so slow. It’s 30 miles out to the Channel Islands, so a knot or two really does make a difference. Are the old full keel boats really that slow? Am I going to notice a dramatic difference in boats that are PHRF rated 219 v 159??