Hello everyone.

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Aug 9, 2005
772
Hunter 28.5 Palm Coast, FL
I am Mrs. Landsend and I was really surprised by some of your reactions to the H20 posting. The way forward in any human endeavour is by exploration. No Landsend is not trying to sell you anything. I appreciated the responses that challenged the post on the basis of science. We will be doing more research on those. In the meantime the one in my car is working well. We are keeping records of gas mileage and hope to have more solid data in a few months. For those of you with open minds I urge you to go the net and look up H2O generators and see the wealth of info available. Don’t stop there either, check out all the innovative work being done on alternative fuels. Keep your minds open to new possibilities and look to the future.
 
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sailortonyb Allied Mistress 39

Well said

Alternate forms of energy are definately in the future.
If we dont experiment now, we will never get there. Solar and wind energy has come a long way in the last several years. Each new idea leads to 10 more.

Tony B
 
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caguy

I am skeptical as some of you are, however, I try to

keep an open mind. When I used to teach High School Science I used to demonstrate electrolysis to my students using a battery and an apparatus that would separate the oxygen and hydrogen. I would then demonstrate the glowing split test for oxygen and ignite the hydrogen in a small test tube with a match. The hydrogen would produce an audible whistle as it ignited.
To demonstrate the recombination chemical reaction on a grander scale I would use an orange juice bottle (well wrapped in tape)and held with a towel. The kids would calculate the proportionate amount of gas needed, and I would displace the water in the orange juice bottle accordingly. Here's the good part. I would light a Bunsen burner not wanting to hold a match to the opening. I would remind the kids of the high pitched whistle with the test tube and that because of the larger opening and volume of the bottle that it would make a low pitched tone that is barely audible and the would have to be very quite and listen carefully. When I had all of their attention I would, heh,heh, heh, hold the bottle up to the Bunsen burner and KABLOOM. That thing went off like a large cannon. It would take me the rest of the period for my heart rate to return to normal. It was a demonstration that I'm sure they will never forget.
One of the teachers I have lunch with told me of a group in Sylmar that meet on a monthly basis that are trying a number of alternative solutions, this being one of them. They get together to compare notes and accurately kept records. I will find out the exact location and attend their next meeting.I will try to get a copy of their peer review records for you, Ross.
Frank
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,691
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
objective data

Having seen them work, I think I qualify as to having an open mind, however, any time I ask someone who has or claims some experience for the data on the power curves for both the gen and the power source with which it needs to be compared, I never get any response which casts doubt even more.
 
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PilotAlso

Like I wrote before, HOW SAD!

No one can deny the energy waiting in free hydrogen. It certain can make a BIG BANG when "burned".

The devil is in the details. Finding free hydrogen in our environment is difficult. There aren't many "hydrogen wells". Energy must be used to prepare the combined hydrogen which is available. This energy HAS TO COME from something. In your cars, it is provided by burning gasoline.

Certainly hydrogen has many up sides as an energy source but it is just as certain that burning gasoline to make electricity and then make hydrogen on a small scale such as being proposed makes no sense.
 
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caguy

Ross, the conservation of energy law can not be denied,

however, your alternator or generator produces way more energy than your car needs. Your alternator continues to spin no matter whether you battery is fully charge or not.
The only part of this system that concerns me is that it does take time to produce a usable quantity of gas. Unless things have improved in that area since my last demonstration 25 yrs ago it doesn't seem like there would be enough gas for it to work.
The other concern is that if you leave your ignition on with the engine not running would could you build up a quantity of gas in the intake and filter housing. One small backfire and I would be reliving my old demonstration all over again.
Frank
 
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Joe

This string is here because?

Somewhere I failed to see the word sailing anywhere in this string-move it to Sails Call Lounge PLEASE
 
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sailortonyb Allied Mistress 39

Joe

If you don't like it go somewhere else.
Unless of course, you are the designated forum cop.
So take your little chinsy ass and find another place to play.

Tony B
 
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Ross

CAGuy, Just because the alternator is being turned doesn't mean it is producing

electricity. It must have a demand for the regulator to adjust the field strength and start to produce an output equal to the demand.
 
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Ross

I have two simple questions for the advocates of

hydrogen generators.
1. How many liters of Hydrogen gas does the system you are using generate per minute?

2. My 3 liter engine runs at 2000 rpm when cruising at 60 mph. How many liters of hydrogen do I need per minute to achieve the results as claimed?
 
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Anchor Down

The Old is New Again

This ad is from Popular Mechanics, sometime in the 20s or 30s. Seems this idea is old enough to have been discarded, then re-discovered.

It will require EXTRA horsepower to drive an alternator which is working harder to replace the electricity used to break apart the water molecule. What one hand giveth, the other taketh away (minus spillage).
 
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Benny

Mrs. Landsend, all automotive parts and components

at one time or other break down. Has anyone documented or even analyzed the prospects and consequences to the automobile when one of these generators or their connections fail? What are the long term effects on engine and electrical components over the life of a vehicle? I'm sorry but a few months data will not likely show the entire long term picture from a net monetary savings stand point.
 
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Ross

Benny, about 4 1/2 hours ago I posted a couple of questions

for the advocates of this system and no one has seen fit to be forth comming with answers. I presume because they don't have any answers.
 
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ClownPilot

the basics

Random Thoughts on Hydrogen

Hydrogen today seems an odd mix
of facts, fallacies, fictions, and frauds.

We can replace some misconceptions
with these hard facts…

Hydrogen on earth is not a fuel. It is
only an energy carrier.

There is more hydrogen in gasoline
than there is in liquid hydrogen.

Electrolysis is not usually your best
way to generate hydrogen.

Hydrogen combustion emphatically
does not implode.

The available energy in a hydrogen
flame is very low.

No hydrogen flame has the ability to
truly melt tungsten.

Solar electricity today is much too
valuable to waste on hydrogen apps.

Equipment amortizations and time
value of money engineering economics
must be included in energy analysis.

So, today’s oil is at least four times
more "free" than solar energy is.

Hydrogen improperly burned in air
creates polluting nitrogen oxides.

Hydrogen can rot metal through an
embrittlement and will easily diffuse
through most other materials.

A closed-loop electrolysizer stops a
car in less than its coasting distance.

Pulsing, ac, or sparking will only
reduce electrolysis efficiency.

Water is not a fuel. It is an ash.

Normally, a monatomic gas only
briefly exists in tiny amounts.

Hydrogen creates severe and largely
unresolved safety issues.

Energy Carriers

Any intelligent energy discussion
has to start with a crucial point. There
are substances which are capable of
delivering net energy to the economy.

There are other substances that only
can move energy around.

Let’s use these definitions…
fuel– a substance which is capable of
delivering net BTU’s of new energy to the
on-the-books economy.

energy carrier– a substance that’s only
able to move a previously aquired energy
from one place to another.

Yeah, there’s lots of free hydrogen
on our sun and on other moons and
planets. And a few rare gas wells do
release some free hydrogen. But here
on earth, hydrogen is not a fuel! At least
not by our strict definition. Hydrogen
is simply an energy carrier that you
will have to fill with energy before
you can empty it. Just like a lead acid
battery or a flywheel.

No terrestrial non-nuclear means to
produce hydrogen is known that does not
consume more energy than it delivers.

So, you always waste energy when
you create and use hydrogen.

Just how useful is hydrogen as an
energy carrier? Here’s how hydrogen
compares against gasoline: Gasoline
offers around 9000 watt hours per liter
and 13,000 watt hours per kilogram of
storage. Hydrogen at its normal STP
pressures offers an outstanding 39,000
watt hours per kilogram. But only a
pitiful 3.5 watt hours per liter.

We can immediately see the major
problem here. Hydrogen uses up too
much volume to be very useful as an
energy carrier. Uh, compress it into a
liquid? Well, yes, but you’ll increase
your costs and losses. Your efficiency
goes down. Safety and infrastructure
issues appear. And there still is four
times less hydrogen in any gallon of
liquid hydrogen than there will be in
a gallon of gasoline.

So the key problem is finding a safe
and dense way to store hydrogen. All
sorts of methods are being explored.
Some involve hydrides while others try
mechanical carbon bonding. Sadly, no
means is known that makes hydrogen use
practical for personal vehicles.


Just my thoughts and experience on the
topic of hydrogen production. To use
hydrogen to 'prop' up the usefulness or
efficiencies of gasoline is a total
farce. Backward thinking and ridiculous.

Injecting CNG or Butane into the intake
would be more useful in assisting and
enhancing the BTU burn of gasoline to
the point of stretching out MPG ratings,
but then, what's the sense?

CP
 
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Benny

Ross, there are no better believers than those that

want to believe. People are hurting because of the high price of fuel and are ready to grab at any promising alternative. It is at these times that the false prophets and merchandisers appear to pray on them with their snake oils and smoke and mirrors. Their marketing contains highly sophisticated techniques which are intended to make these folks believe they are part of a group of highly progressive individuals. Their scientific data and arguments are filled with halfthruths with intent to deceive. Present science does not support their premise. Do you think that if this this thing really worked there would not be a reputable manufacturer out there producing a quality component endorsed by Consumer Reports and other reputable organizations instead of having to jery-rig a mayonnaise jars with electrical wires and some rubber tubing into your hard earned automobile. It does not surprise me one bit that your questions have been left unanswered as they would have to face their ignorance about what they are trying to preach about.
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,691
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
Notice

that I never received any response(s) to my request for data supporting anyone's claims. The sad truth is that some people believe the marketing without question and others simply refuse to admit what they bought was not a wise choice.

Every similar request thus far has been met with silence. I'd love to believe H generators can improve performance but would like to see some evidence.
 
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