removehtml]What is the Ideal heel that you take your boat ? I have been told around 10 to 12 deg. I have sailed at 30 to 35 deg. and was told this is way to far. Thank you all. AlanError: Error: expected [/URL], but found [/removehtml] instead[/removehtml]
Heeling
- Thread starter porsche
- Start date
- Status
20 vs 30 degree
Some boats sail at 20 degrees, and others go as far as 30 because of higher freeboard, etc. My Irwin hits the rails at 30. My friends Pearson Vanguard hits it at 20. That said, you go the fastest straight up! Comfortable (a generic term) is 20 degrees.
Some boats sail at 20 degrees, and others go as far as 30 because of higher freeboard, etc. My Irwin hits the rails at 30. My friends Pearson Vanguard hits it at 20. That said, you go the fastest straight up! Comfortable (a generic term) is 20 degrees.
Depends on the boat .....
Only way to tell exactly is to use a GPS, change to the VMG (velocity made good) function and see where it 'maximizes' / is highest. If you heel too far the keel will begin to skid to leeward and you'll begin to see a major drop in vmg (and the wake wont be straight out behind the boat); if you dont heel enough it means that the sails arent properly set/shaped/trimmed (depowered) or the keel isnt giving much 'lift-to-weather'. "Best" angle of heel is the one that gets you to the next 'mark' the fastest (use your GPS set to VMG ... and the highest VMG you can attain versus varying heel angles .... will automatically give you the 'best' heel angle. Unfortunately you will never ever ever find those exact same conditions again as they vary from day to day ... so therefore the heel angle also varies from day to day (depending on 'all' the conditions present). VMG will allow you to 'optimize' probably better than any other 'formula', or (others) 'experience' etc.
Only way to tell exactly is to use a GPS, change to the VMG (velocity made good) function and see where it 'maximizes' / is highest. If you heel too far the keel will begin to skid to leeward and you'll begin to see a major drop in vmg (and the wake wont be straight out behind the boat); if you dont heel enough it means that the sails arent properly set/shaped/trimmed (depowered) or the keel isnt giving much 'lift-to-weather'. "Best" angle of heel is the one that gets you to the next 'mark' the fastest (use your GPS set to VMG ... and the highest VMG you can attain versus varying heel angles .... will automatically give you the 'best' heel angle. Unfortunately you will never ever ever find those exact same conditions again as they vary from day to day ... so therefore the heel angle also varies from day to day (depending on 'all' the conditions present). VMG will allow you to 'optimize' probably better than any other 'formula', or (others) 'experience' etc.
10-15 is about right
10 to 15 degrees is about right. As Letterman said it depends on the shape of your hull among other things. Newer boats have a tendency to be designed with flatter bottoms and like to sail flat as well. All boats at some time will start to heel so far that you no longer are presenting the optimum shape of the hull through the water. When that happens you'll start to lose the ability to control her, she'll keep rounding up on you, speed will drop off, etc. It's best to go out and try things for yourself. Take note of the angle of heel, how far you've got the tiller over or wheel turned, how much resistance there is in the wheel/tiller, where the traveler is, how much twist is in the sail, what your boat speed is, etc. Then start to make small adjustments and compare notes. I think you'll find flatter is faster and also easier to handle. At least you'll know what your boat likes and be able to replicate it the next time out. While testing try to take notes even if mental, only make small adjustments, make your adjustments in the same order so you can repeat them later on, stay organized and most of all have fun. Once you have the boat set up you can mark lines, traveler, etc so you can dial it back in the next time you're in those conditions. Mike
10 to 15 degrees is about right. As Letterman said it depends on the shape of your hull among other things. Newer boats have a tendency to be designed with flatter bottoms and like to sail flat as well. All boats at some time will start to heel so far that you no longer are presenting the optimum shape of the hull through the water. When that happens you'll start to lose the ability to control her, she'll keep rounding up on you, speed will drop off, etc. It's best to go out and try things for yourself. Take note of the angle of heel, how far you've got the tiller over or wheel turned, how much resistance there is in the wheel/tiller, where the traveler is, how much twist is in the sail, what your boat speed is, etc. Then start to make small adjustments and compare notes. I think you'll find flatter is faster and also easier to handle. At least you'll know what your boat likes and be able to replicate it the next time out. While testing try to take notes even if mental, only make small adjustments, make your adjustments in the same order so you can repeat them later on, stay organized and most of all have fun. Once you have the boat set up you can mark lines, traveler, etc so you can dial it back in the next time you're in those conditions. Mike
Another perspective
Mike, Rich and Letterman are all correct, but sometimes the "ideal heel" is to just get her over as far as you can and have a little fun and excitement. ;D
Mike, Rich and Letterman are all correct, but sometimes the "ideal heel" is to just get her over as far as you can and have a little fun and excitement. ;D
Hi Alan, generally speaking the sail trim...
book that I have says that 23 degrees is about the optimum for most sail boats. Anything more will allow wind to spill out of the sail thus reduce driving force. Then again very often you see racing boats over further than that. I've had ours over to 40 degrees before with the toe rail in the water and grinning from ear to ear. Of course when the admiral is aboard I always try to keep heel under 20 degrees just for her comfort. Terry
book that I have says that 23 degrees is about the optimum for most sail boats. Anything more will allow wind to spill out of the sail thus reduce driving force. Then again very often you see racing boats over further than that. I've had ours over to 40 degrees before with the toe rail in the water and grinning from ear to ear. Of course when the admiral is aboard I always try to keep heel under 20 degrees just for her comfort. Terry
Also
a double-ender can heel more than a boat with a wide rear end. While they can lay over and still track straight, the wedge boat tends to have their center of buoyancy move rearwards and you end up with you nose pointed down
a double-ender can heel more than a boat with a wide rear end. While they can lay over and still track straight, the wedge boat tends to have their center of buoyancy move rearwards and you end up with you nose pointed down
Alan........
my Pearson 30, according to my GPS and Speedo, likes 18 degrees to make her fastest way along. Frank
my Pearson 30, according to my GPS and Speedo, likes 18 degrees to make her fastest way along. Frank
Depends
I like 10-15 degrees, my kids like even more. They don't care about speed though, they like the excitement of a boat "tipping over".
I like 10-15 degrees, my kids like even more. They don't care about speed though, they like the excitement of a boat "tipping over".
Point of sail ...
I would think that much depends on point of sail. We are probably talking about what the best degree of heel would be when close hauled. I know that for our boat on a close haul we achieve the best speed between 20 to 25 degrees. When we are over 25 and approaching 30 degrees we are fighting weather helm too much and losing speed. At 15 to 20, we are adjusting trim with all the sail controls to try to gain more speed (that is, I'm giving orders to crew while the first mate is giving me looks for disturbing the peace
). On a broad reach, flatter seems to be faster.
I would think that much depends on point of sail. We are probably talking about what the best degree of heel would be when close hauled. I know that for our boat on a close haul we achieve the best speed between 20 to 25 degrees. When we are over 25 and approaching 30 degrees we are fighting weather helm too much and losing speed. At 15 to 20, we are adjusting trim with all the sail controls to try to gain more speed (that is, I'm giving orders to crew while the first mate is giving me looks for disturbing the peace
). On a broad reach, flatter seems to be faster.
Hull shape makes a difference
My Bristol 24 only has an 18' length at waterline. When the boat heels; the waterline gets longer, thus the theoretical hull speed gets higher. There's a point of heel where keel slipage and sail spillage cancel out the benefit of a longer waterline. About 25 degrees seems fastest on most points of sail. Even though we have a hull speed of only 5.7 knots; we can sometimes hit 6.5 at 25 degrees heel. The boat also steers best when "in the groove". My old Mac 25, was hard to handle and slower at more than 15 degrees heel. Every boat is a little different.
My Bristol 24 only has an 18' length at waterline. When the boat heels; the waterline gets longer, thus the theoretical hull speed gets higher. There's a point of heel where keel slipage and sail spillage cancel out the benefit of a longer waterline. About 25 degrees seems fastest on most points of sail. Even though we have a hull speed of only 5.7 knots; we can sometimes hit 6.5 at 25 degrees heel. The boat also steers best when "in the groove". My old Mac 25, was hard to handle and slower at more than 15 degrees heel. Every boat is a little different.
You are not really heeling,,
... until you can stand upright on the side of your lazarette.... Seriously ,there is an interesting comment by noted NA Ted Brewer on pg 10 of the Jan/Feb issue of "Good Old Boat" about boats that "roll in" and those that "roll out" when heeled. He indicates that older style CCA designs in the former category did, in fact roll in and increase their waterlines when heeled, but today's "chubbies" roll out and have no appreciable gain in waterline when heeled.
... until you can stand upright on the side of your lazarette...
. Seriously ,there is an interesting comment by noted NA Ted Brewer on pg 10 of the Jan/Feb issue of "Good Old Boat" about boats that "roll in" and those that "roll out" when heeled. He indicates that older style CCA designs in the former category did, in fact roll in and increase their waterlines when heeled, but today's "chubbies" roll out and have no appreciable gain in waterline when heeled.Oh Joy is like that.
She rolls in and the effective waterline at 30 degrees is about 31' instead of 26'6". It makes a difference in speed for sure.
She rolls in and the effective waterline at 30 degrees is about 31' instead of 26'6". It makes a difference in speed for sure.
Yeah, I've been that way on Oh Joy just once.
That was enough for me. I was absolutely amazed at how dry she stayed, even in that position. I was standing on the side of the staysail boom looking back. Not a drop of water got into the cockpit or the house, which was open. It did rearrange everything loose in the cabin though.
That was enough for me. I was absolutely amazed at how dry she stayed, even in that position. I was standing on the side of the staysail boom looking back. Not a drop of water got into the cockpit or the house, which was open. It did rearrange everything loose in the cabin though.
I've got a pilot berth to Starboard where I put
soft things, PFD's, blankets, etc. They all slid off since we laid over to Port of course. None of the cabinets opened though, good design I'd say. Weekend before last, the wife was below while we were beating at 30 degrees or so to Port and she was braced against the Mast, trying to stay on the high side. I told her she didn't weigh enough to make a difference on this boat and could've laid down on the low side. She was used to heeling in the little boat, where her weight made a difference. She was commenting about everything ending up on the sole. I guess I need to install a net on that berth so things stay put.
soft things, PFD's, blankets, etc. They all slid off since we laid over to Port of course. None of the cabinets opened though, good design I'd say. Weekend before last, the wife was below while we were beating at 30 degrees or so to Port and she was braced against the Mast, trying to stay on the high side. I told her she didn't weigh enough to make a difference on this boat and could've laid down on the low side. She was used to heeling in the little boat, where her weight made a difference. She was commenting about everything ending up on the sole. I guess I need to install a net on that berth so things stay put.
- Status