Heeling

[rayhow]

How much heeling is too much heel for my O'day 192.
My partner gets pretty stressed out at 15 degrees. At what point do I pass the point of no return?

 

[RECESS]

My O'Day 25 does not hit her stride until over about 25 degrees. She just seems to get and extra boost of ump. I can feel it hit it and then she takes off. Any less and I am not in it, any more and she loses speed.

That word "speed' is relative when sailing a pregnant whale. The interior is nice but not great for hydrodynamics.

Her fear may be it will go over. I am not familiar with the 192 but the 25 is not going over unless it is an epic gust of wind or hit with a wave. If she did knocked down, she is self righting. The only thing going past 25 degrees does is slow down the boat and gets me evil looks from the wife.

 

[pjpj]

Dave - you really should not assume it is a she. I have had men on my boat wetting their pants.
Pam

 

[kenn]

Our Sandpiper 565 is similar to your O'Day 192 in size and sailplan, but our keel is 300 lb of lead in a fiberglass case, that is raised/lowered vertically on a bronze screw.

The consensus among owners is that the Sandpiper performs best when the heel is less than 15 degrees. More than that, and the short keel (draft: 2'10") starts to lose "grip".

Since the O'Day 192 has a deeper centerboard, I'd expect that it can be heeled more. With apologies to your partner, 15 degrees is probably just right

My wife wasn't truly comfortable til she'd taken some lessons by herself and got some time at the helm of our boat.

The point of no return is probably >105 degrees

 

[sailaway78]

Unless your racing

It doesn't matter. Sailing is supposed to be about peace and quiet and relaxation. Where ever your passengers are comfortable is the proper amount of heel.

 

[sailaway78]

It doesn't matter. Sailing is supposed to be about peace and quiet and relaxation. Where ever your passengers are comfortable is the proper amount of heel. Remember we are only talking about one knot or less.

 

[RECESS]

Dave - you really should not assume it is a she. I have had men on my boat wetting their pants.
Pam

You are absolutely correct.

The O'Day 192 is self righting and here is a youtube of one pacing along nicely at more than 15 degrees. It starts out with less heel but then she does what mine does, lays over and starts to get some giddy up.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=384z99s5aw4

 

[oldiesrocker2001]

I gotta agree with 'Easy' and whatever's OK with the crew is the best(unless they always want the motor on). 10 degrees is when the admiral gets worried, but fortunately I was cheap when lookin for an inclinometer and bought the smaller one that only went to 10 so she can't tell by looking at it... And like Kenn states, once she got more helm time - I purposely picked a day with moderately strong but predictable(no gusts) breeze - she became less worried.

 

[Don12364]

Point of No Return - Reassurance

To reassure you both the 'point of no return', - otherwise known to naval architects as the 'Angle of Vanishing Stability' is usually in the region of 130°.
This means your masthead is in the water.
Unless there are very large waves the wind alone cannot achieve sufficient strength to cause this - hurricanes excepted - possibly.

But for you dear friend the maximum permitted heel is when she squeals - and you will be none the worse off.
If you are lucky (and careful) over time she will grow accustomed to heeling and everything will be milk and honey.

So don't blow your one chance.

 

[Snotter]

You are brave showing a video clip on this forum with your fenders dragging in the water.

If you get a gps with chartplotting capabilities you can determine if you are suffering from too much slippage by looking at the angle between your tack tracks. I suspect that you are actually going slower by crabbing your boat--but I've been pleasantly proved to be wrong in the past.

 

[RECESS]

Not my fenders or boat. I have small lines on the bottom of my fenders that tie off when they are raised. I have enough things trying to destroy the look of my hull, I do not need to be one of them.

 

[Johnb]

One thing I have found that settles any one down when we heel is if they are well braced and feel secure. Nobody likes leaning backwards, get them back to the leeward side, feet securely planted and build up to the 15 or 20 deg that is the optimum amount of heel for most boats and in a few minutes they will settle down and enjoy it.

If they will take the helm and learn how to round up in gusts then it seems like they get to enjoy it even more quickly. Sailing an extra 10 degrees off the wind in the begiinng so you leave some margin for rounding up also helps.

 

[sinnettc]

We're now in my wife's 4th year of sailing and our second full summer with the Capri 22. While she's still not that interested in taking the helm (she will when I need to fix something or drop a sail), and doesn't like it when the wind gets over about 10-12 knots, she doesn't freak out anymore when we start to lean over. She definitely doesn't like it when whatever is on the bunks ends up on the cabin floor so I do my best to keep us under 20 degrees or at least make sure everything is stowed where it won't slide.

 

[RichH]

We're now in my wife's 4th year of sailing and our second full summer with the Capri 22. While she's still not that interested in taking the helm (she will when I need to fix something or drop a sail), and doesn't like it when the wind gets over about 10-12 knots, she doesn't freak out anymore when we start to lean over. She definitely doesn't like it when whatever is on the bunks ends up on the cabin floor so I do my best to keep us under 20 degrees or at least make sure everything is stowed where it won't slide.

By all means encourage her to 'take command' of the boat - ALL aspects ... and YOU KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT, only 'gentle' corrections, then politely discuss, etc. She will automatically 'find the groove' at between 15 - 25 degrees of heel ... and this will be quite comfortable for her. Start with Don Guilettes' Sail Trim Users Guide: http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/category-books.htm?cat=1321 etc. etc. etc. etc.

Caution: this may lead to owning MULTIPLE sail boats; his boat & 'her' boat. My wife and I now have 3 large sailboats and she occasionally 'disappears' on 'her' boat with her girlfriends for days at a time .... leaves me in peace to 'go racing', etc. on my 'boats'.
)))

 

[LuzSD]

with fenders??

You are absolutely correct.

The O'Day 192 is self righting and here is a youtube of one pacing along nicely at more than 15 degrees. It starts out with less heel but then she does what mine does, lays over and starts to get some giddy up.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=384z99s5aw4

Kinda fun to watch that video UNTIL THE FENDERS showed up boucing around..........WHAT??

 

[bffatcat]

Heeling more comments

In over 50 years of sailing Ive come across very few women that genuinely like sailing. Some pretend to like it to please their partner, Others are afraid of capsizing. Still others get seasick.
What you have here is a 19` boat Keel CB with a 1'5" draft. This is a small tender boat by anyones standards. A shallow boat of this size can certainly be knocked down and if the compainway is open can fill with water. The advertised self righting comment means the
boat wont sink. but what can happen is the boat can fill with water and float with less than a
foot of freeboard above the water. 10 degrees of heel is not much Hopefully in time your partner will get used to it. If not there isnt much more I can say. except keep the rail out of the water and maybe you will get lucky. One thing is for sure, your not going to be able to sail indefinitely with heel of less than 10 degrees on a boat like this.

 

[jfmid]

I guess I am extremely lucky. My wife absolutely loves when we heel over. I didn't early on. I dont have an inclinometer but have to guess that when we are at about 20-25 degrees she is happiest. If I can get the rails wet she is thrilled. I am the one doing the math in my head about how sail area decreases as we heel and how much lead is in the keel keeping us stable and such. I have gotten better with each passing season and with our new boat it is a blast. We sailed this weekend with great winds and heeled back and forth across the bay looking at each other thinking we were the luckiest people on the planet. We're still in the "too ignorant to know any better" stage. So much to learn and so little time to sail. Let the partner take the helm and it will get better. More involvement leads to better sense of security.

 

[RECESS]

My wife loves to sail and loves to feel the boat get into that groove. She loeve to be the one at the tiller when we heel. It has taken a couple years to get our son to get onboard with heeling. He is 6 now and at about 5 1/2 he finally stated enjoying it..... about the time he wanted to do roller coasters by himslef.........hmmmmmm.

 

[LuzSD]

It seems most logical that the more sailing one does he more comfortable we all are with all conditions. I personally panic a little when the wind dies and I start doubting my ability to keep things moving forward. I now notice that with every year of experience I have, the more I respect and appreciate all conditions. Heeling is a favorite for lots of reasons but that really became comfortable for me after crewing for a while on a bigger boat. Bottom line, I think it just takes experience........ and you get experience by loving it enough to keep getting out there.

I am really disappointed with Bffatcat's experience with woman and sailing. We sail with many many couples that include woman that have the biggest passion for sailing. I guess we are really lucky.......it is a blast to spend time with such passionate people with like minded love for sailing. Being at the helm is the key for many...... keep at it.

 

[BobM]

There is only one good solution for this problem

How much heeling is too much heel for my O'day 192.
My partner gets pretty stressed out at 15 degrees. At what point do I pass the point of no return?

She will feel much more comfortable on a bigger boat