Does anyone know the optimal heeling angle for a Hunter 30? Also what is considered an exteme or unsafe heeling angle? I am thinking from my faimly comfort level 15 degrees is a nice heel and we have been at up to 30 degrees for a time or to but I find it uncomfortable. Thanks
- Status
17 degrees
According to the Yanmar manual, you should never run your engine at a greater angle of heel than seventeen degrees. Screws up the lubrication, at least on a 4JH2E. Which begs the question of why someone with enough wind to heel seventeen degrees would have the engine going in the first place. Regardless, I drew hash marks on the fun meter at seventeen degrees, and it turns out to be the perfect spot to throw in a reef on my 410. I figure it's good to keep the engine happy even when it's turned off. And the wife. I mean....
According to the Yanmar manual, you should never run your engine at a greater angle of heel than seventeen degrees. Screws up the lubrication, at least on a 4JH2E. Which begs the question of why someone with enough wind to heel seventeen degrees would have the engine going in the first place. Regardless, I drew hash marks on the fun meter at seventeen degrees, and it turns out to be the perfect spot to throw in a reef on my 410. I figure it's good to keep the engine happy even when it's turned off. And the wife. I mean....
Sailing or Motor Sailing?
Hey John, When heeling 17 degrees, it's a good start. However, I don't feel we are completely powered up until we're at 20 degrees. As you said,you would be going at least as fast as you could typically motor in the same conditions, but tieing in a reef at that point seems premature. I could see reefing at 25 degrees and up to bring you back to the 17-20 degree comfort level & max. speed potential.
Hey John, When heeling 17 degrees, it's a good start. However, I don't feel we are completely powered up until we're at 20 degrees. As you said,you would be going at least as fast as you could typically motor in the same conditions, but tieing in a reef at that point seems premature. I could see reefing at 25 degrees and up to bring you back to the 17-20 degree comfort level & max. speed potential.
engine off is over 17 ok? is 30 dangerous?
I tend to agree with you. It seems you pick up much more speed over 17 degrees.I see pictures of boats sailing where the rub rail is in the water! even at 30 degrees it wasn't that close and we were doing 6.5 knots. also if you sit on the sides with the built in heeling curves they seem to be made for more than 17 degrees. this is on the ICW mind you, so wave height would not grab a sail like in other photos I have seen...
I tend to agree with you. It seems you pick up much more speed over 17 degrees.I see pictures of boats sailing where the rub rail is in the water! even at 30 degrees it wasn't that close and we were doing 6.5 knots. also if you sit on the sides with the built in heeling curves they seem to be made for more than 17 degrees. this is on the ICW mind you, so wave height would not grab a sail like in other photos I have seen...
15 Degrees
Most modern boat designs max out at 15 degrees, 20 degrees at the most. Further heel reduces the effective sail area, increases drag from wetted surface, and increases drag as the rudder becomes less effective and is turned farther to sustain the same turning correction to weather helm. The only danger at 30 degrees is the increased possibility of rounding up if the now very ineffective rudder stalls, and weather helm takes charge. Also, at 30 degrees you are definitely going slower than running the right sail plan at 15 degrees in the same wind. David Lady Lillie
Most modern boat designs max out at 15 degrees, 20 degrees at the most. Further heel reduces the effective sail area, increases drag from wetted surface, and increases drag as the rudder becomes less effective and is turned farther to sustain the same turning correction to weather helm. The only danger at 30 degrees is the increased possibility of rounding up if the now very ineffective rudder stalls, and weather helm takes charge. Also, at 30 degrees you are definitely going slower than running the right sail plan at 15 degrees in the same wind. David Lady Lillie
Don't think it will ever turn over!
Bob: I doubt that you will ever turn the boat over far enough to sink it unless you are broached by a wave or a very large swell. So that is not something you need to dwell on. You did not mention which model of H'30 we are speaking about. If it happens to be a Cherubini (pre '84) vs the newer Hunters there is a difference. Regardless, your 15 degrees is a good reference point. Once you reach this point, it is a good time to think about the reef!
Bob: I doubt that you will ever turn the boat over far enough to sink it unless you are broached by a wave or a very large swell. So that is not something you need to dwell on. You did not mention which model of H'30 we are speaking about. If it happens to be a Cherubini (pre '84) vs the newer Hunters there is a difference. Regardless, your 15 degrees is a good reference point. Once you reach this point, it is a good time to think about the reef!
15 is for me
I am sailing on a new 33, but before that I was on a 290. In both cases the single most important factor was the Admiral factor. Beyond 15 was beyond her fun level...which immediately translates to my fun level. No doubt this is no secret to others as well. Even when I singlehand, 15 is my favorite spot, with cushion for gusts and makes an easy spot to reef. My theory is fun and comfort outweigh the "max power" of the sails. Just my opinion.
I am sailing on a new 33, but before that I was on a 290. In both cases the single most important factor was the Admiral factor. Beyond 15 was beyond her fun level...which immediately translates to my fun level. No doubt this is no secret to others as well. Even when I singlehand, 15 is my favorite spot, with cushion for gusts and makes an easy spot to reef. My theory is fun and comfort outweigh the "max power" of the sails. Just my opinion.
the REAL indicator...
...should be the kingpost, not the inclinometer. In other words, how much weather helm is being produced. There are times when I can balance my rig up to 22-23 degrees of heel and still keep the rudder within 15 degrees of center. But that only works if I've got a good helmsperson and a fabulous mainsheet trimmer working the traveler. Racing mode. In cruising mode, however, with the autopilot engaged, we reef at about 17 degrees on the fun meter. Anything more than that, and I start falling behind on my homework.
...should be the kingpost, not the inclinometer. In other words, how much weather helm is being produced. There are times when I can balance my rig up to 22-23 degrees of heel and still keep the rudder within 15 degrees of center. But that only works if I've got a good helmsperson and a fabulous mainsheet trimmer working the traveler. Racing mode. In cruising mode, however, with the autopilot engaged, we reef at about 17 degrees on the fun meter. Anything more than that, and I start falling behind on my homework.
Heeling
You are the captain before your god and it is your first consideration your keep your crew and company safe and comfortable. Adjust your sails appropriatly. Best regards, Jim
You are the captain before your god and it is your first consideration your keep your crew and company safe and comfortable. Adjust your sails appropriatly. Best regards, Jim
Some good points here, however
even though it may indeed be possible to make your boat go fast, trim to a balanced helm, all at high angles of heel (assuming the admiral doesn't clout you up side the head) this doesn't mean your boat is actually going where you are pointed. You make significant leeway at high angles of heel so that you actual progress to windward (VMG) suffers. It's amusing when I hear skippers on cruising cats with those shallow keels talk about how they can point to 35 degrees. It's true of course, the boat is indeed pointed in that direction as they rapidly drift to leeward with a SAILING angle of something more like 50.
even though it may indeed be possible to make your boat go fast, trim to a balanced helm, all at high angles of heel (assuming the admiral doesn't clout you up side the head) this doesn't mean your boat is actually going where you are pointed. You make significant leeway at high angles of heel so that you actual progress to windward (VMG) suffers. It's amusing when I hear skippers on cruising cats with those shallow keels talk about how they can point to 35 degrees. It's true of course, the boat is indeed pointed in that direction as they rapidly drift to leeward with a SAILING angle of something more like 50.
Excitement with heal!
As a lake sailor, when we occasionally have some heavy wind, we enjoy some significant healing. I know it slows us down some but we have a blast. We sailed in 25 + mph winds this past fall and kept a constant 35-40 degree heal, even with a double reefed main and about a 90% jib. It was a fun day!
As a lake sailor, when we occasionally have some heavy wind, we enjoy some significant healing. I know it slows us down some but we have a blast. We sailed in 25 + mph winds this past fall and kept a constant 35-40 degree heal, even with a double reefed main and about a 90% jib. It was a fun day!
- Status