How much is too much when it comes to heeling in this boat? I have to admit I chickened out and had to change course because it felt like she was just going to do a knockdown. My little tilt a gauge hit 30 degree and I thought "this isn't so bad" but it didn't stop there and kept on going. As a total amateur I just let out the main sheet and turned into the wind. I am sure there are better ways to handle that situation but am not quite sure what it would be. Can the H240 capsize if I do something even stupider? Is it okay to just hold my course, max out my tilt a gauge and see what happens?
Heeling in a H240
- Thread starter Caribbeanknight1
- Start date
- Status
Check out YouTube video[ Hunter capsize 02],it shows what your boat will do.My son and I tried what they did, rounded up every time.Will give you confidence in your boat.
The way the boat is designed, the rudder comes out of the water and the bow swings into the wind prior to a knockdown. This can be very violent, tossing crew and gear about. Your course change was a good decision. There is no reason to push the boat beyond your comfort zone. It is a safe boat and it takes a combination of multiple factors to cause a knockdown. High wind alone won't do it.
On many boats you can adjust the shape of the sails for the wind conditions to help prevent being overpowered. The H240 lacks most of the controls needed to shape the sails. Your action of letting out the main sheet and pointing higher into the wind is a valid tactic for de-powering the rig.
If you are seeing more than just an occasional gust, it's time to reduce sail.
On many boats you can adjust the shape of the sails for the wind conditions to help prevent being overpowered. The H240 lacks most of the controls needed to shape the sails. Your action of letting out the main sheet and pointing higher into the wind is a valid tactic for de-powering the rig.
If you are seeing more than just an occasional gust, it's time to reduce sail.
I found with the water ballast boats, never to go over 12-14 degrees because if you do, you are fighting the boat and not getting the fastest speed. In addiiton, you will scare the crap out of everyone to include the women and that is one person you do not want to scare.
If the winds are strong, place the mainsail in reefed position as you can always shake it out when the winds die. If you have roller furling jib, furl that in first, then reef the main and of course letting the wind spill. Otherwise, if it is still to much, then close up and go home and come back for another day of sailing. If you are over at 30 degrees, trust me someone may get hurt when you tack again for example someone standing up and boom hits them in the head. Ouch or maybe into the drink. I could go on but remember no more than 12-14 degree heel max and learn to use less sail and letting the wind spill to.
crazy dave condon
If the winds are strong, place the mainsail in reefed position as you can always shake it out when the winds die. If you have roller furling jib, furl that in first, then reef the main and of course letting the wind spill. Otherwise, if it is still to much, then close up and go home and come back for another day of sailing. If you are over at 30 degrees, trust me someone may get hurt when you tack again for example someone standing up and boom hits them in the head. Ouch or maybe into the drink. I could go on but remember no more than 12-14 degree heel max and learn to use less sail and letting the wind spill to.
crazy dave condon
Like Crazy Dave says, keep the boat fairly flat, it'll go faster. I find my boat sails just as fast with reefed main as the wind comes up and stays nice and flat. The boat also motor sails well with just the main up, even reefed. Keeping my wife happy with minimal heel makes life better. LOL. It's also easier on the boat and my self. The 23.5 moves very easily in light wind and needs to be reefed early. If I need to go upwind in heavier wind, often I'll motorsail with reefed main only and roll out the jib when it's time to go down wind.
Kevin
Kevin
The boat is tender due to being completely water ballasted, I had one for a couple of years. It can be a bit of a handfull if you sail where the wind strength varies a lot. If it gusts up slack the main, if it stays up, reef. I have a current boat that is half water ballast 800lb and half cast iron retractable fin keel and I have never been able to get the rail in the water.
dehler 25;
I learned that heeling so far over does not help at all and based on my assessment of sailing many small boats with different keels and ballasts the max heel I always told everyone no more than 12-14 degrees and this I have religoulsly adhered to and have won many races even with a Hunter 28 once in san francisco although I was not involved but simply passed them all. I learned this from a friend of mine from Portugal who use to competively race and win in the Mediterrainein.
I learned that heeling so far over does not help at all and based on my assessment of sailing many small boats with different keels and ballasts the max heel I always told everyone no more than 12-14 degrees and this I have religoulsly adhered to and have won many races even with a Hunter 28 once in san francisco although I was not involved but simply passed them all. I learned this from a friend of mine from Portugal who use to competively race and win in the Mediterrainein.
As a 23.5 owner and with very limited experience, I appreciate the feedback on this topic. We had been heeling between 18-25 degrees and not finding any noticeable speed improvement - only more work involved. As we let the main reef a bit and make a minor heading adjustment, we have discovered it maintains a good steady speed and reduces the physical demands of working on a 20+ degree angle. The boat moves well on a slight heel.
SanLar, thank you sir but I will maintain a 12-14 degree max heel which I think is what you have found out and this also applies to many other boats as well learning from some very good racers, not those with boats seen in magazines way heeled over.
Sir, I agree with you wholeheartedly on the 12-14 degree angle being optimum. That is more to our liking. Thanks for the reply!
You are welcome sir. I was very much involved with the 23.5 only if you knew. Happy sailing and God Bless and Fair Winds.
crazy dave
crazy dave
Heel on!
I would like to chimb in with an opposing opinion. Many folks do what is fun and always sailing at under 14 degrees is not fun. Dave should know and be clear that these boats do not reach the max righting moment until over 90 degrees. They are very forgiving of errors and are extremely hard to knock down. If a gust or a downdraft hits you, just be sure to hang on. The sails can be played quite effctively by racing enthusiasts and the boats are not slow even at 30 degrees. We have had ours up around 60 degrees many times with no one hurt or overboard. Most guests enjoy the side "g" forces created and it feels like speed. People exist that enjoy the stern rail seats at 40 degrees. In our Mini Cooper S, we speed up for off or on ramps. The virtual reality folks use a lot of "heel" to create illusions of fast corners, acceleration, and braking. But, yes, if you are the more sedate type, sometimes more comfort can be achieved by reefing or motoring in.
The most important point is not to be scared if these things heel.
I would like to chimb in with an opposing opinion. Many folks do what is fun and always sailing at under 14 degrees is not fun. Dave should know and be clear that these boats do not reach the max righting moment until over 90 degrees. They are very forgiving of errors and are extremely hard to knock down. If a gust or a downdraft hits you, just be sure to hang on. The sails can be played quite effctively by racing enthusiasts and the boats are not slow even at 30 degrees. We have had ours up around 60 degrees many times with no one hurt or overboard. Most guests enjoy the side "g" forces created and it feels like speed. People exist that enjoy the stern rail seats at 40 degrees. In our Mini Cooper S, we speed up for off or on ramps. The virtual reality folks use a lot of "heel" to create illusions of fast corners, acceleration, and braking. But, yes, if you are the more sedate type, sometimes more comfort can be achieved by reefing or motoring in.
The most important point is not to be scared if these things heel.
When it comes to water related activity ladies and gentlemen, I will not compromise when it comes to safety at all when it includes children and Scouts. This is why I have always maintained a heel of 12-14 max for the fastest and safest speed of any boat. I also speak from experience. There have been deaths to include kids when nuckleheads think it is exciting to really heel over. I recall once coming up on a boat in distress as the captain had really laid the boat over for the fun of it. He fell off without a lifejacket of course and his wife got the sails down quickly to come back. I assisted in getting the captain back on board my boat. The sad part which hit me very hard and I too cried was handling a very dead captain all because he felt it was fun to really heel over. THINK ABOUT WHAT I SAID.
NOT SO CRAZY ON THIS ISSUE
NOT SO CRAZY ON THIS ISSUE
Well, this knucklehead is done with sailing if there is a 14 degree limit, especially on the Hunter water ballasts that go 20 really easy.
Bakes;
Heeling over is anyone's decision as to how far over to go but since I was heavily involved with the water ballast boats for Hunter, based on experience, I found that you would sail faster with ease of control of the boat at no more than 14 degrees thru less sail area, line control or a comibination thereof. I also know of many women and children who were uncomfortable heeling way over but if you wish to heel further that will be a personal choice.
There are many other accounts I could give based on what was seen for example a boat with kids being taught by inexperienced staff heeling way over with the kids on the high side sitting under the lifelines with full sail in 35-40 knots of wind and the boat rolled over and sank. Thank goodness no one was drowned.
I have always said when you respect the water, water will respect you; otherwise you will die. I have always erred on the side of safety and part of that is what I have seen and been involved with.
We can agree to disagree and will always leave the choice of heeling over to the captain, so I will respect your preference and will request that you do likewise. This is all I will say.
crazy dave condon
Heeling over is anyone's decision as to how far over to go but since I was heavily involved with the water ballast boats for Hunter, based on experience, I found that you would sail faster with ease of control of the boat at no more than 14 degrees thru less sail area, line control or a comibination thereof. I also know of many women and children who were uncomfortable heeling way over but if you wish to heel further that will be a personal choice.
There are many other accounts I could give based on what was seen for example a boat with kids being taught by inexperienced staff heeling way over with the kids on the high side sitting under the lifelines with full sail in 35-40 knots of wind and the boat rolled over and sank. Thank goodness no one was drowned.
I have always said when you respect the water, water will respect you; otherwise you will die. I have always erred on the side of safety and part of that is what I have seen and been involved with.
We can agree to disagree and will always leave the choice of heeling over to the captain, so I will respect your preference and will request that you do likewise. This is all I will say.
crazy dave condon
iF YOU HAVE TO ROUND UP AND GO BELOW TO CHANGE YOUR UNDERWEAR: THIS MEANS YOU HEELED OVER TOO FAR! CHIEF
Heel
Everyone has truth in what they say! The point that I so poorly tried to make was that we unnecessarily scare sailors and their guests about heeling. Keel boats do not reach a tipping point like a Hobie Cat. Conditions being less than 30 knots and no big cresting waves, it is quite difficult to roll even a Hunter water ballasted. I think many people would enjoy sailing so much more if they knew the boat was not just going to roll over. If a 240 mast is parallel to the water, there is near maximum force(ballast) being exerted to pull it back up. At the same time, normal wind cannot push it down further. With the absence of large waves it is not really possible to swamp the cabin even with the companionway open. In the simplest terms, under reasonble conditions, there is no danger in heeling the boat and people do not have to be scared. Water coming over the gunwhales or washing the rails is just an indication that adjustments should be made to accomodate the "Admiral" and crew.
Going on, I totally agree with Dave and all who have suggested that heeling thirty degrees and/or rounding up slows progress to the mark. In racing, it seems to be best though, to sail on through the gusts that may catch you off guard and through the headers that may drop you to three degrees.
Everyone has truth in what they say! The point that I so poorly tried to make was that we unnecessarily scare sailors and their guests about heeling. Keel boats do not reach a tipping point like a Hobie Cat. Conditions being less than 30 knots and no big cresting waves, it is quite difficult to roll even a Hunter water ballasted. I think many people would enjoy sailing so much more if they knew the boat was not just going to roll over. If a 240 mast is parallel to the water, there is near maximum force(ballast) being exerted to pull it back up. At the same time, normal wind cannot push it down further. With the absence of large waves it is not really possible to swamp the cabin even with the companionway open. In the simplest terms, under reasonble conditions, there is no danger in heeling the boat and people do not have to be scared. Water coming over the gunwhales or washing the rails is just an indication that adjustments should be made to accomodate the "Admiral" and crew.
Going on, I totally agree with Dave and all who have suggested that heeling thirty degrees and/or rounding up slows progress to the mark. In racing, it seems to be best though, to sail on through the gusts that may catch you off guard and through the headers that may drop you to three degrees.
Bakes,
Like I said to each their own but due to my involvement with the Hunter 240 plus being the top selling dealer as I had purchased nearly 25% of the production line is why I rely on experience. I am only passing on my thoughts and trust me I like to race and even with Keel boats on the smaller which I am more knowledgable about, I would say the same is true like the water ballast series but water ballast is a little more nimble. The main thing I am trying to say, have a fun sail and be wary of the conditions so that you come home safely after each sail.
Fair winds and God Bless
Crazy Dave Condon
Like I said to each their own but due to my involvement with the Hunter 240 plus being the top selling dealer as I had purchased nearly 25% of the production line is why I rely on experience. I am only passing on my thoughts and trust me I like to race and even with Keel boats on the smaller which I am more knowledgable about, I would say the same is true like the water ballast series but water ballast is a little more nimble. The main thing I am trying to say, have a fun sail and be wary of the conditions so that you come home safely after each sail.
Fair winds and God Bless
Crazy Dave Condon
- Status