Don, I apologize for what is probably the dumbest question you'll get but I can assure you there are a lot of experienced sailors out there who don't know the answer to this question. More specifically, when the wind pipes up to 20 to 30 knots, how do you suggest the sails be set and trimmed? I've picked up a lot of different advice over the years. Some say to furl or reef the main and furl the jib in roughly the same proportion. Others say to take down the main and go with just the jib and furl it as necessary. Still others have said to do the opposite and take down the jib entirely and go with only the main furling it as necessary. On heavy wind days, I'll see plenty of sailors out on Galveston Bay doing one or the other of these. Nobody seems to follow one particular approach. What's your take on this?
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same issue
I switched for a Catalina with a Genoa and would simply pull the main and reef the genoa in bad or high winds. I have two reefing points in the Hunter's high Roach main, however am hesitant to leave the main up and usuall yjust leave out the jib. I think I should double reef and leave a piece of the jib out????? correct????
I switched for a Catalina with a Genoa and would simply pull the main and reef the genoa in bad or high winds. I have two reefing points in the Hunter's high Roach main, however am hesitant to leave the main up and usuall yjust leave out the jib. I think I should double reef and leave a piece of the jib out????? correct????
Your finger tips will give the corrent answer ....
How and what you reef all depends on the how the boat reacts to what course you steer and how you want the helm to be balanced, etc. Every boat, even boats of the same class, will react differently depending on the 'current' center-of-lateral-resistance (for the amount of heel and other forces) 'currently' acting on the hull VERSUS the combined and dynamic center-of-effort of the sails. This may sound like a lot of technical mumbo-jumbo but the easiest answer is: how much pressure do you feel in the wheel or tiller; and, is it fighting you or has it changed much from 'normal'? Changing sail shape, trim, angle of attack, changing course, current sea state .... all affect the 'balance differences' that will ultimately be felt by your **finger tips** on the helm. What your finger tips on the helm are telling you (weather helm, neutral helm, etc. and the forece needed to hold the boat on a straight course) and the corrections you make to the sail plan, etc. to get back to your 'normal' helm is the correct answer. When and what to reef: How much heel can you tolerate and how much force on the helm is needed to effortlessly steer a straight course? Hope this helps.
How and what you reef all depends on the how the boat reacts to what course you steer and how you want the helm to be balanced, etc. Every boat, even boats of the same class, will react differently depending on the 'current' center-of-lateral-resistance (for the amount of heel and other forces) 'currently' acting on the hull VERSUS the combined and dynamic center-of-effort of the sails. This may sound like a lot of technical mumbo-jumbo but the easiest answer is: how much pressure do you feel in the wheel or tiller; and, is it fighting you or has it changed much from 'normal'? Changing sail shape, trim, angle of attack, changing course, current sea state .... all affect the 'balance differences' that will ultimately be felt by your **finger tips** on the helm. What your finger tips on the helm are telling you (weather helm, neutral helm, etc. and the forece needed to hold the boat on a straight course) and the corrections you make to the sail plan, etc. to get back to your 'normal' helm is the correct answer. When and what to reef: How much heel can you tolerate and how much force on the helm is needed to effortlessly steer a straight course? Hope this helps.
Rick: Lets start with the point in time where you notice the wind is starting to really pipe up and your sailing to windward. You become aware of it when the hair on the back of your neck starts to stand up or another part of your body starts to pucker!! The first thing you would be doing from a sail trim standpoint is depowering the boat by inducing twist in the main and jib (spilling air out of the top of the sail)and dropping the traveler(reducing the angle of attack), but assume conditions are getting worse. The next thing you'd want to do is flatten both the main and jib because a flat sail is not a powerful sail. Conditions are still getting worse so we want to consider reducing sail area (reefing). When you left the dock, the first sail you raised was the main and then you rolled out the jib. Therefore it just makes sense to me that to reduce sail, I do just the opposite. If your jib has the ability to be reduced, then do so. If it does not, just roll it up. Now your sailing with the main only, which is very flat. If you still can't control the boat, than reef the main to the #1 spot and then to the #2. If that doesn't work then you go to bare poles and motor. So that is the sequence I use together with my reasoning for doing so. I'm big on having a reason for every sailing decision. Here's a tip - when you tuck in the reef, do not sinch down the reef ties. Their only function is to tidy up the sail so it isn't falling all over the place. When you sinch them down the pressure of the wind can cause rips to go right up the sailfrom the grommit to the top, which is not a pretty sight. One last point - on a mast head rig, the engine of the boat is the jib (on a fractional rig it is the main) so it makes sense to me anyway that the jib is the first sail I would take down if I was wanting to depower the boat.
Heavy weather question
Rick: I forgot to mention - there are no dumb questions on this forum. No matter what question comes up you can believe me there are others out there with the same question.
Rick: I forgot to mention - there are no dumb questions on this forum. No matter what question comes up you can believe me there are others out there with the same question.
Which sail to reef first
Don wrote: One last point - on a mast head rig, the engine of the boat is the jib (on a fractional rig it is the main) so it makes sense to me anyway that the jib is the first sail I would take down if I was wanting to depower the boat." I agree more, Don, with your earlier comments about different boats behave differently. Our masthead rigged Catalina gets most of its power from the jib. But when sailing in strong winds, we plan ahead. Maybe this is just our experience in San Francisco Bay, but we don't see too many 155% jibs here.
We reef our main first, because after flattening it as far as it can go with our sail controls, and changing the angle of attack with our traveler, reefing the main reduces the heel. Smaller 110 jibs then can continue to drive the boat. Perhaps if we "over-powered" with big genoas, and then had to deal with winds from 5 to then 30 kts. all in one day, I'd agree with jib, then main. But to keep on your feet here in our usually high winds, we reef our mains first, with 110 to 130 jibs. Any larger jib is a waste of sailcloth and dangerous. Stu
Don wrote: One last point - on a mast head rig, the engine of the boat is the jib (on a fractional rig it is the main) so it makes sense to me anyway that the jib is the first sail I would take down if I was wanting to depower the boat." I agree more, Don, with your earlier comments about different boats behave differently. Our masthead rigged Catalina gets most of its power from the jib. But when sailing in strong winds, we plan ahead. Maybe this is just our experience in San Francisco Bay, but we don't see too many 155% jibs here.
We reef our main first, because after flattening it as far as it can go with our sail controls, and changing the angle of attack with our traveler, reefing the main reduces the heel. Smaller 110 jibs then can continue to drive the boat. Perhaps if we "over-powered" with big genoas, and then had to deal with winds from 5 to then 30 kts. all in one day, I'd agree with jib, then main. But to keep on your feet here in our usually high winds, we reef our mains first, with 110 to 130 jibs. Any larger jib is a waste of sailcloth and dangerous. Stu
Some info
Hello, Last October I got some good experience sailing in 20-25 kt winds. I sailed with just the main, then just the genoa, and finally with a reefed main and 150 genoa rolled up to 110 or so (Furlex roller / reefing, with a UK sail designed to be reefed). What I learned was that the boat would sail OK with any combination up. However, unless I had both main and jib up, I could not tack. With either just the main or just the jib, the bow would get into the wind and the boat would just stop. With just the jib up I could jibe. With just the main up I could not jibe. I probably could if I really tried, but I kept the mainsheet tight so I would not crash jibe. With the main sheeted in, I could not turn off the wind enough to jibe. Sailing with main alone was pretty slow. Sailing with jib alone was faster, but not fast. When sailing with reefed main and reefed genoa it was easy to get the boat to hull speed. From now on, when the wind is 20+, unless I am just going downwind, I will sail with reefed main and 110 jib. Barry
Hello, Last October I got some good experience sailing in 20-25 kt winds. I sailed with just the main, then just the genoa, and finally with a reefed main and 150 genoa rolled up to 110 or so (Furlex roller / reefing, with a UK sail designed to be reefed). What I learned was that the boat would sail OK with any combination up. However, unless I had both main and jib up, I could not tack. With either just the main or just the jib, the bow would get into the wind and the boat would just stop. With just the jib up I could jibe. With just the main up I could not jibe. I probably could if I really tried, but I kept the mainsheet tight so I would not crash jibe. With the main sheeted in, I could not turn off the wind enough to jibe. Sailing with main alone was pretty slow. Sailing with jib alone was faster, but not fast. When sailing with reefed main and reefed genoa it was easy to get the boat to hull speed. From now on, when the wind is 20+, unless I am just going downwind, I will sail with reefed main and 110 jib. Barry
Balance
I've only been sailng for about four years now so I still consider myself new to it however, it seems to me (from what experience I do have) that the boat should be balanced in higher winds. Not the head sail or the main alone. I note that one of the responses referred to having trouble tacking or jibing with just one or the other sail up alone. I can understand this because I've had the same problem. Once during high winds (probably around 20 kts.) I had the main reefed to the first point and the jib rolled out to only around 40%. I found that the boat was easier to handle with just jib out just that much then with the main alone and I could reach hull speed with much more control. My 2 cents!
I've only been sailng for about four years now so I still consider myself new to it however, it seems to me (from what experience I do have) that the boat should be balanced in higher winds. Not the head sail or the main alone. I note that one of the responses referred to having trouble tacking or jibing with just one or the other sail up alone. I can understand this because I've had the same problem. Once during high winds (probably around 20 kts.) I had the main reefed to the first point and the jib rolled out to only around 40%. I found that the boat was easier to handle with just jib out just that much then with the main alone and I could reach hull speed with much more control. My 2 cents!
Different strokes for different boats
What Bob and Barry are saying is exactly the point, each boat behaves differently. With our 110 jib, she'll tack with only the jib. That's different than Barry's experience, but, again, different boats. Barry's idea of going out in that kind of weather is also great, because it really taught him valuable lessons. Others disagree about sailing with only the jib, but it works just fine for us. We go nowhere with just the main up, but if our boat was a newer Hunter, we'd have a completely different (sail) plan and way to do it. Keep practicing and enoying. Stu
What Bob and Barry are saying is exactly the point, each boat behaves differently. With our 110 jib, she'll tack with only the jib. That's different than Barry's experience, but, again, different boats. Barry's idea of going out in that kind of weather is also great, because it really taught him valuable lessons. Others disagree about sailing with only the jib, but it works just fine for us. We go nowhere with just the main up, but if our boat was a newer Hunter, we'd have a completely different (sail) plan and way to do it. Keep practicing and enoying. Stu
Mates: As you can see from the comments, boats behave differently. Tthe thing a sailor has to do is experiment with HIS boat and sail plan. Additionally, it helps to know what is happening to the sails in each wind condition and when we finish this sail trim forum stick you will know. One thing I forgot to mention - my answers have to be general in nature so I can deal with any type sail boat and anytime I discuss a boat it has a standard sail plan such as a main and a 135 jib. If you are sailing with a 110 or a 155, things obviously change especially if your sailing with a 155 and it is blowing like stink.
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