Well I just came back from an intro course into heavy weather tactics. The Pardey's video was shown with a parachute used with heaving too. My question is this: I'm familiar with a drogue and what a parachute looks like (from the video) but why use a parachute over a drogue in a heave too situation? I'm more familiar with a drogue being towed off the stern, but why a parachute over a drogue for bow stability in a hove to position?
- Status
Quick answer,
A drogue is for running at speed. (six knots or more) A parachute is for stopping the boat for any reason so it is set from the bow so as to properly ride against oncoming waves and let the crew rest (or what ever they had in mind.
)
A drogue is for running at speed. (six knots or more) A parachute is for stopping the boat for any reason so it is set from the bow so as to properly ride against oncoming waves and let the crew rest (or what ever they had in mind.
)Experience??
Has anyone in this group actually deployed a chute? I have. After having done it, I put that thing away and decided it was more of a problem than a solution. If you were in a situation where you believed you needed it, is it safe to assume that the boat would be making way? You would not believe just how quickly the boat stops making way when the chute fills with water and the boat gets to the end of the slack in the rode attaching the boat to the chute. It is NOT like putting on the brakes. It is more like hitting a brick wall. It is powerful and it is instant. My test was not under emergency conditions and it was still too exciting for me. I have sailed in some pretty rough conditions and I can't imagine any time I would consider using a chute as long as I had any ability to sail. The rougher the conditions, the less I would want to put a chute out. Drogues, yes. Chute, no.
Has anyone in this group actually deployed a chute? I have. After having done it, I put that thing away and decided it was more of a problem than a solution. If you were in a situation where you believed you needed it, is it safe to assume that the boat would be making way? You would not believe just how quickly the boat stops making way when the chute fills with water and the boat gets to the end of the slack in the rode attaching the boat to the chute. It is NOT like putting on the brakes. It is more like hitting a brick wall. It is powerful and it is instant. My test was not under emergency conditions and it was still too exciting for me. I have sailed in some pretty rough conditions and I can't imagine any time I would consider using a chute as long as I had any ability to sail. The rougher the conditions, the less I would want to put a chute out. Drogues, yes. Chute, no.
Larry, I am curious about your test
Could you please give us a little more information about the setup you used and the conditions? I am asking because my understanding is that you use a lot (300+ feet) of nylon so that it will stretch and absorb shock. Your description of hitting a brick wall was what makes me ask. I have one but have never tried using it and have not gotten near enough to ever needing it to test it out.
Could you please give us a little more information about the setup you used and the conditions? I am asking because my understanding is that you use a lot (300+ feet) of nylon so that it will stretch and absorb shock. Your description of hitting a brick wall was what makes me ask. I have one but have never tried using it and have not gotten near enough to ever needing it to test it out.
That's crazy
A chute doesn't need the boat to be hove-to and a good hove-to boat doesn't need a chute. They are different methods to survive bad weather and I've never heard of them being combined into one method. Personally, I think the chute is a good thing for the very extreme cases. Lets say I'm in Houston and decide to sail to Cancun in late May. I get halfway and because of global warming, a pre-season tropical storm forms right in my path and is heading my way. Now lets say I was stupid enough to go on this trip without storm sails but had a chute and a drogue. If I use the chute early, I can weather the storm down below and it should pass in a day (hopefully). If I use the drogue, I have to turn around and run with the storm for maybe 2 or 3 days, giving up all that progress I had made earlier as well as having to deal with being out in the weather steering the boat. Personally, I think I would rather put up a storm sail and try feathering (a 30 degree angle). That should give me about 2-3 knots going forward taking the waves on the bow (the strongest part of the boat) and getting through the storm quicker and not putting a lot of pressure on the rigging. Bad part about that is one has to be at the helm. Can't let the boat fall off 5-10 degrees because at that wind speed, it may be way too much for the rigging to handle. For all other situations, heaving to is much easier way to bring the boat to a control drift. I just wouldn't want to try a heave to when the wind is 50+ knots. I was out in a 50+ knots with just my beam to the wind with bare poles and my boat was heeled over at least 45 degrees. Now the anchor rode being wrapped around the keel may have had something to do with the excessive heal, but I can just imagine what sails up at that time would have done.
A chute doesn't need the boat to be hove-to and a good hove-to boat doesn't need a chute. They are different methods to survive bad weather and I've never heard of them being combined into one method. Personally, I think the chute is a good thing for the very extreme cases. Lets say I'm in Houston and decide to sail to Cancun in late May. I get halfway and because of global warming, a pre-season tropical storm forms right in my path and is heading my way. Now lets say I was stupid enough to go on this trip without storm sails but had a chute and a drogue. If I use the chute early, I can weather the storm down below and it should pass in a day (hopefully). If I use the drogue, I have to turn around and run with the storm for maybe 2 or 3 days, giving up all that progress I had made earlier as well as having to deal with being out in the weather steering the boat. Personally, I think I would rather put up a storm sail and try feathering (a 30 degree angle). That should give me about 2-3 knots going forward taking the waves on the bow (the strongest part of the boat) and getting through the storm quicker and not putting a lot of pressure on the rigging. Bad part about that is one has to be at the helm. Can't let the boat fall off 5-10 degrees because at that wind speed, it may be way too much for the rigging to handle. For all other situations, heaving to is much easier way to bring the boat to a control drift. I just wouldn't want to try a heave to when the wind is 50+ knots. I was out in a 50+ knots with just my beam to the wind with bare poles and my boat was heeled over at least 45 degrees. Now the anchor rode being wrapped around the keel may have had something to do with the excessive heal, but I can just imagine what sails up at that time would have done.
Franklin, I have to ask
How did you ever get your rode wrapped around your keel in those conditions? Just curious...
How did you ever get your rode wrapped around your keel in those conditions? Just curious...
Patrick
You are correct. The chute should be deployed with a LOT of rode. In my case, I just wanted a rehersal in benign conditions and used about 60 or 70 feet of nylon. The winds were 10-12 and I was running Dead Downwind. I had assumed that if I ever had to deploy in a real emergency the boat would not be stopped and the wind would be blowing at 40 or more. I still believe this assumption is correct. The chute I used was a military surplus drogue chute with about a 6 foot diameter. I believe it had been used to pull cargo out the back of airplanes for arial drops. $5 seemed like a fair price. The boat was a Cal 26. It was my first sailboat and I had been sailing less than one year at that time. (Translation: dumb and inexperienced) In looking at the sites of commercial suppliers of parachute sea anchors it appears that my chute was considerably smaller than what they recommend. I realize that I did not have the "approved" zillion doller setup sold in the magazines, but I don't believe my test was too far off from reality. I still don't know why the cleats weren't ripped off of the boat. I guess that is a good testimonial for Cal Boats construction. I am adding a link with lots of good information on sea anchors and chutes. For what it is worth, I plan to build a series drogue this winter. It sounds like it does what I was looking for.
You are correct. The chute should be deployed with a LOT of rode. In my case, I just wanted a rehersal in benign conditions and used about 60 or 70 feet of nylon. The winds were 10-12 and I was running Dead Downwind. I had assumed that if I ever had to deploy in a real emergency the boat would not be stopped and the wind would be blowing at 40 or more. I still believe this assumption is correct. The chute I used was a military surplus drogue chute with about a 6 foot diameter. I believe it had been used to pull cargo out the back of airplanes for arial drops. $5 seemed like a fair price. The boat was a Cal 26. It was my first sailboat and I had been sailing less than one year at that time. (Translation: dumb and inexperienced)
In looking at the sites of commercial suppliers of parachute sea anchors it appears that my chute was considerably smaller than what they recommend. I realize that I did not have the "approved" zillion doller setup sold in the magazines, but I don't believe my test was too far off from reality. I still don't know why the cleats weren't ripped off of the boat. I guess that is a good testimonial for Cal Boats construction. I am adding a link with lots of good information on sea anchors and chutes. For what it is worth, I plan to build a series drogue this winter. It sounds like it does what I was looking for.
Check out the video if you can
Franklin, You need to check out the Pardey's video - a link provided below - to see how they use it. They put out two lines, the primary line from the bow, with a secondary line forming a V about 30 feet (memory is vague here) from the stern. This line is used to control the angle the boat sits in the water while "stalled." Patrick, In the video the Pardey's say they have reduced the size of the recommended parachute from the book of the same name - Storm Tactics. They now recommend an 8 foot parachute for boats 35 feet and under.
Franklin, You need to check out the Pardey's video - a link provided below - to see how they use it. They put out two lines, the primary line from the bow, with a secondary line forming a V about 30 feet (memory is vague here) from the stern. This line is used to control the angle the boat sits in the water while "stalled." Patrick, In the video the Pardey's say they have reduced the size of the recommended parachute from the book of the same name - Storm Tactics. They now recommend an 8 foot parachute for boats 35 feet and under.
Friend Used One
He lost his rudder on the way to the UK from the Azores. He had gale force wind for a week that would have torn his makeshift emergency rudder right off. He used a parachute off the bow with 200' of rode and hung out for the week. Probably saved him from abandoning his boat, which with no hull insurance, would have been a serious financial hit as well. There is a thread somewhere in the archives on his experience. The series drogue looks like a good deal, but after my friend's experience, I'd like to have both! Rick D.
He lost his rudder on the way to the UK from the Azores. He had gale force wind for a week that would have torn his makeshift emergency rudder right off. He used a parachute off the bow with 200' of rode and hung out for the week. Probably saved him from abandoning his boat, which with no hull insurance, would have been a serious financial hit as well. There is a thread somewhere in the archives on his experience. The series drogue looks like a good deal, but after my friend's experience, I'd like to have both! Rick D.
Hey Larry!
LOVE IT! Rick, We never heard much about what happened after he got going. Any details?
LOVE IT! Rick, We never heard much about what happened after he got going. Any details?
Rode around keel
I was anchored in a place where the current shifts and my boat will turn in the direction of the current but be pushed in the direction of the wind. I've learned that if I'm anchored in a place where the current changes during the night, I have to have my stern anchored too.
I was anchored in a place where the current shifts and my boat will turn in the direction of the current but be pushed in the direction of the wind. I've learned that if I'm anchored in a place where the current changes during the night, I have to have my stern anchored too.
Global Warming
I stopped reading at " I get halfway and because of global warming," Because there has not been, to date, ANY direct relationship proven between "pre-season tropical storms" and global warming. Seems some folks are determined to turn every discussion into their political agenda of choice.
I stopped reading at " I get halfway and because of global warming," Because there has not been, to date, ANY direct relationship proven between "pre-season tropical storms" and global warming. Seems some folks are determined to turn every discussion into their political agenda of choice.
Herb Parsons
Your a bit narrow minded. Global warming is a fact...what causes it isn't. There are opinions about what causes it, but no cold hard facts. Point is though, we ARE in a global warming phase and this happens often on this planet, with or without humans. SO THERE WAS NO POLITICAL MESSAGE...YOU JUST HAVE A CHIP ON YOUR SHOULDER. and if you don't think we're in a global warming phase, then tell that to the people on some islands who had to abandon them because the sea has already risen to a point that it's hopeless to stay.
Your a bit narrow minded. Global warming is a fact...what causes it isn't. There are opinions about what causes it, but no cold hard facts. Point is though, we ARE in a global warming phase and this happens often on this planet, with or without humans. SO THERE WAS NO POLITICAL MESSAGE...YOU JUST HAVE A CHIP ON YOUR SHOULDER. and if you don't think we're in a global warming phase, then tell that to the people on some islands who had to abandon them because the sea has already risen to a point that it's hopeless to stay.
Geez, Herb....
.... I cant bekieve that statement was anything more that a tounge in cheek, literary transition. How about we ask first, then malign later. But, since you mentioned it..... we were in an ice age, now we are not. Isn't that a bit of warming ? Jeff
.... I cant bekieve that statement was anything more that a tounge in cheek, literary transition. How about we ask first, then malign later. But, since you mentioned it..... we were in an ice age, now we are not. Isn't that a bit of warming ? Jeff
And besides,,
I'm a HUGE fan of global warming. Living on Puget Sound will do that to you. And Larry, how about a shot of the front of that parachute vehicle?
I'm a HUGE fan of global warming. Living on Puget Sound will do that to you.
And Larry, how about a shot of the front of that parachute vehicle?OK
I know it LOOKS like a 383 stroker but it's really just a Nissan 2-stroke. Yes, it will lift the front wheels off of the ground. Sailors gotta' have a winter hobby. This winter my hobby is bebuilding my son-in-law's Hunter 23 and my 87 Fiero GT. I like to stay busy.
I know it LOOKS like a 383 stroker but it's really just a Nissan 2-stroke.
Yes, it will lift the front wheels off of the ground. Sailors gotta' have a winter hobby. This winter my hobby is bebuilding my son-in-law's Hunter 23 and my 87 Fiero GT. I like to stay busy.- Status