Heaving to

[BAD ORCA]

Do you flatter the jib to get more push/power at the bow of the boat against the rudder when heaving to, or bag the sail out a little? I could not get the boat to heave to today in light 8-10kt winds. The bow just kept turning into the wind. The jib was a bit baggy/filled and wondered if it was flatter if that would push the bow more downwind? I didnt have much time to experiment so let it go at that for now.

Jib is 100% with a high cut in the leech. I have recently put it on so have not played with it much. I previously had a big 130% genoa and could heave to no matter conditions or sail shape. This sail will require some figuring out.

 

[kappykaplan]

When I heave to from a close haul, I leave the jib sheet alone.

 

[kappykaplan]

The bow just kept turning into the wind.

Did you drop the traveller to leeward? The main is what's driving the bow to windward.

 

[Stu Jackson]

When I heave to from a close haul, I leave the jib sheet alone.

Close haul before trying it is the correct answer I did it with both my 110 and 85 jibs. Play with the traveler after you're set to adjust the boat's angle.

 

[dlochner]

The boat is turning to the wind because the main is overpowering the jib. The solution will be to increase power to the jib or (probably better) decrease the power of the main by dropping the traveler, flattening the sail, or reefing.

 

[thinwater]

Do you flatter the jib to get more push/power at the bow of the boat against the rudder when heaving to, or bag the sail out a little? I could not get the boat to heave to today in light 8-10kt winds. The bow just kept turning into the wind. The jib was a bit baggy/filled and wondered if it was flatter if that would push the bow more downwind? I didnt have much time to experiment so let it go at that for now.

Jib is 100% with a high cut in the leech. I have recently put it on so have not played with it much. I previously had a big 130% genoa and could heave to no matter conditions or sail shape. This sail will require some figuring out.

Do NOT heave to with an overlapping jib unless you want to stretch the leach over the spreaders. This is not good for it. Folks do it, but others have had very bad experiences. The assumption is that in storm conditions you would not be using an overlapping jib, so then it is not a problem. 100% no problem. Yes, close-hauled trim is right. Just lay the wheel over. Then you probably ease the traveler (so the bow does not come up) and may turn the wheel up, after the boat stops. This is boat-specific and depends on the keel and the sails. If you are reefed, it will change again.

 

[garymalmgren]

Re; The assumption is that in storm conditions you would not be using an overlapping jib, so then it is not a problem. 100% no problem.

Firstly, my ( as an Aussie) interpretation of what foresails are. A jib is a jib and a genoa is a genoa,
Any sail that fills the forward triangle or overlaps it, is a genoa. So, a 100% sail is a genoa.
Any sail smaller than the forward triangle is a jib.
Jibs get progressively smaller from the No1 to the No 3. After that you rig a storm foresail.
A good furling genoa with foam strips can be reasonably effective furled down to No 3.

Back to the case at hand, My assumption is that in storm conditions you would not be flying a 100% genoa.
If a furler is fitted the sail should be furled into a suitable jib size and the cars positioned correctly.
If hank on. then hank on a No 1 Jib. or smaller
In storm conditions you might get away with windward sailing with a 100% genoa, but as soon as you move to sail on another course you will be over canvased.
Also in storm conditions you will not be able to heave to with a 100% genoa up. That much sail forward will overcome the rudder and push her around.

So, to safely heave to in storm conditions you should have a reef in the main (or maybe two) and a smaller amount of sail up forward.
This how to keep the boat under control.

I am not trying to be a smartar#e here, but if you really need to heave to in storm conditions you need to get it right first time.

gary

 

[BAD ORCA]

Did you drop the traveller to leeward? The main is what's driving the bow to windward.

Oh..ok that may have been part of the problem. I had the main pretty much tightened on centerline. I did ease it a little bit but it did not help a lot. Not very much though. Maybe dropped it off center a couple of feet. I will try and ease it a lot more next time.

 

[BAD ORCA]

The boat is turning to the wind because the main is overpowering the jib. The solution will be to increase power to the jib or (probably better) decrease the power of the main by dropping the traveler, flattening the sail, or reefing.

Thanks, i will try and ease off on the main quite a bit next time and see how much of a difference it makes.

 

[BAD ORCA]

Do NOT heave to with an overlapping jib unless you want to stretch the leach over the spreaders. This is not good for it. Folks do it, but others have had very bad experiences. The assumption is that in storm conditions you would not be using an overlapping jib, so then it is not a problem. 100% no problem. Yes, close-hauled trim is right. Just lay the wheel over. Then you probably ease the traveler (so the bow does not come up) and may turn the wheel up, after the boat stops. This is boat-specific and depends on the keel and the sails. If you are reefed, it will change again.

Good to know, thanks. It worked so well though I miss the big 130. If only I could see under it I would still have it on.

 

[BAD ORCA]

Re; The assumption is that in storm conditions you would not be using an overlapping jib, so then it is not a problem. 100% no problem.

Firstly, my ( as an Aussie) interpretation of what foresails are. A jib is a jib and a genoa is a genoa,
Any sail that fills the forward triangle or overlaps it, is a genoa. So, a 100% sail is a genoa.
Any sail smaller than the forward triangle is a jib.
Jibs get progressively smaller from the No1 to the No 3. After that you rig a storm foresail.
A good furling genoa with foam strips can be reasonably effective furled down to No 3.

Back to the case at hand, My assumption is that in storm conditions you would not be flying a 100% genoa.
If a furler is fitted the sail should be furled into a suitable jib size and the cars positioned correctly.
If hank on. then hank on a No 1 Jib. or smaller
In storm conditions you might get away with windward sailing with a 100% genoa, but as soon as you move to sail on another course you will be over canvased.
Also in storm conditions you will not be able to heave to with a 100% genoa up. That much sail forward will overcome the rudder and push her around.

So, to safely heave to in storm conditions you should have a reef in the main (or maybe two) and a smaller amount of sail up forward.
This how to keep the boat under control.

I am not trying to be a smartar#e here, but if you really need to heave to in storm conditions you need to get it right first time.

gary

Much thanks for all of this. No inner stay yet for a storm sail. That will come at some point down the road. Boats finally at a place in the refit stage we can start sailing her regularly, so still have some basics to figure out. I have not sailed this boat very much yet.

 

[jssailem]

1. Do you flatter the jib.
2. The bow just kept turning into the wind.

3. Jib is 100% with a high cut in the leech
This sail will require some figuring out

Exploring the OP’s specific question.
@Stu Jackson provides a positive answer.

1. Close haul before trying it is the correct answer. Play with the traveler after you're set to adjust the boat's angle.

When I heave-to, I start from a close haul and then throw the helm over as if starting a tack, but do not release the jib sheet. This backs the jib and stops the forward momentum. I then lock the helm to windward (trying to turn the boat against the jib). Now you can adjust the Main to balance the boat as Stu suggests. This may mean Reefing, easing the traveler, or easing the boom.

Remember, this is about stalling the boat, sliding sideways while keeping the bow pointed towards the path of the wind-blown waves. A change in wave path, wind direction, or avoidance of a lee shore all need to be considered and constantly evaluated to maintain safety.

The Leach is not an issue.
As you stated, the sail on your boat, with the size of the main sail, and your boat's natural ability to stall, will require some figuring out. Isn't that the fun of it?
.

 

[Hayden Watson]

I am not sure of your timing, but it also could be that you are turning back into the wind before the boat has lost way. I tend to hold the wheel amidship for a bit after the tack before turning it back into the wind because I have had it go back if the boat was not slowed down enough.

 

[capta]

I strap in the headsail (reefed well down or a small sail) as tight as I can get it, then tack, so that it is to windward. Then I reef the main and secure it with the sheet and the vang on the lee side so that it only begins to push the bow to windward after the jib has the full force of the wind in it and is pushing the bow down to fill the main.
If I expect to be hove-to for any length of time, especially in heavy weather, I will add an extra sheet to the windward rail or a chain plate, to minimize the chafe on the jib sheet on the upper windward shroud. If done properly, the windward bow should take most of the waves, not allowing the vessel to sit broadside to the seas, nor allowing the boat to be pooped.

 

[rgranger]

I'm a little confused by your description. You mentioned that your jib was "baggy/filled," ... did you mean backwinded. Assuming the jib is set correctly and is backwinded, you've already received a lot of good advice above.

In addition to the traveler...an additional factor you can experiment with is the rudder position.
Do you have a way to lock the wheel in place? The mainsail should begin driving the boat forward, and the rudder angle, causes the boat to round up but the backwinded jib prevents the boat from completing the turn and you stall and fall off... and the cycle starts over again.

The goal is to set the rudder (and traveler... and reef on the main.... and size of the headsail) so the boat can build enough speed to move forward effectively so that it begins to round up.... but stalls because of the backwinded headsail. Finding that balance can make a significant difference in how smoothly the maneuver develops.

All this talk about storm conditions is appropriate but it is also a good technique if you just want to park the boat... make a sandwich and have lunch. (Or use the head).

 

[Paul356]

I found with my 356 that heaving-to required different techniques in different conditions. Sometimes it was a matter of tacking and leaving the jib sheet alone. Sometimes it was leaving the jib alone, falling off a bit (jib flutter) and letting the boom out to luff. Sometimes it was locking the wheel up and easing the sails. It really varied. Try what works.

 

[BAD ORCA]

I'm a little confused by your description. You mentioned that your jib was "baggy/filled," ... did you mean backwinded. Assuming the jib is set correctly and is backwinded, you've already received a lot of good advice above.

In addition to the traveler...an additional factor you can experiment with is the rudder position.
Do you have a way to lock the wheel in place? The mainsail should begin driving the boat forward, and the rudder angle, causes the boat to round up but the backwinded jib prevents the boat from completing the turn and you stall and fall off... and the cycle starts over again.

The goal is to set the rudder (and traveler... and reef on the main.... and size of the headsail) so the boat can build enough speed to move forward effectively so that it begins to round up.... but stalls because of the backwinded headsail. Finding that balance can make a significant difference in how smoothly the maneuver develops.

All this talk about storm conditions is appropriate but it is also a good technique if you just want to park the boat... make a sandwich and have lunch. (Or use the head).

The air was light so i had the jib car forward pulling down on the leech, and the jib a bit let out to fill it (baggy) sort of like you might downwind. It seems to give a little more drive on really low wind days. I had it set like this, not sheeted in tight when i set the boat 'hove to'. I call it baggy. Not sure if there is a better term. I might be wrong though, and this may actually be de-powering the headsail. It seems from above suggestions to sheet it in tight, so this simple thing maybe was causing all my problems. I didnt want to drag the sail over the spreaders trying to flatten it, or re-tack. so left it alone. Will be interesting to see the difference just by sheeting the jib in tight.

I did play with rudder position, but it didnt seem to make any difference, but i did not spend more than 15-20 minutes playing with it though. Was having more fun just sailing, so gave up on heaving to/lunch until was back at dock. Yes I can lock it.

I have hove to many times with this boat and others. Its always been easy-peasy with hardly any effort or adjusting. This is the first time i was not able to get the boat to park. The only thing thats changed is the headsail, so will need to dedicate some time to figuring this one out next time i go out.

Thanks.

 

[BAD ORCA]

I found with my 356 that heaving-to required different techniques in different conditions. Sometimes it was a matter of tacking and leaving the jib sheet alone. Sometimes it was leaving the jib alone, falling off a bit (jib flutter) and letting the boom out to luff. Sometimes it was locking the wheel up and easing the sails. It really varied. Try what works.

Ha! Thanks. I was spoiled by my old sail. All i had to do was turn into wind and back the headsail. Different conditions didnt seem to make much difference. Now I have to work at it. Good to learn this now before i set off across the channel to the local islands.