Heat Exchanger???

[Alansails]

Due to the question of anti-freeze in the sump underneath the engine, we had one mechanic say that there was a bracket missing to the heat exchanger and he pressurized it and found there was a small leak causing the anti freeze to go there. Solution:"replace the heat exchanger-total time 8 hrs at a cost of a refurb unit to be about $550.00 and labor to be 8 hrs X $85.00/hr.
We are having a second opinion and will look at it next time we go to the boat-tomorrow, engine has 400 hrs on it. says hole is due to vibration??? We will see.. I find this difficult to believe..
We are a fresh water boat.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Well pressure testers are pretty cheap. get one at an auto parts store and test for yourself.

 

[Clydo]

Due to the question of anti-freeze in the sump underneath the engine, we had one mechanic say that there was a bracket missing to the heat exchanger and he pressurized it and found there was a small leak causing the anti freeze to go there. Solution:"replace the heat exchanger-total time 8 hrs at a cost of a refurb unit to be about $550.00 and labor to be 8 hrs X $85.00/hr.
We are having a second opinion and will look at it next time we go to the boat-tomorrow, engine has 400 hrs on it. says hole is due to vibration??? We will see.. I find this difficult to believe..
We are a fresh water boat.

Remove bulkhead behind engine then pretty easy to get to HE if you have to remove and replace. Radiator
shop might fix?

Clyde Thorington
C310 # 245
ILEAN TOO
San Jose, CA

 

[rpwillia]

Remove bulkhead behind engine then pretty easy to get to HE if you have to remove and replace. Radiator shop might fix?

You don't even need to take the bulkhead out. Just move the cushions and the board that covers the shaft area and you can reach the two bolts that hold the heat exchanger on with a ratched and an extension. The hoses are equally easy to get from the front and sides. Should take about two hours to pull and replace. Not sure where the yard got 8 hours.

If you have the older style where the brackets are brazed on it is likely not worth fixing (been there tried that). The new ones come with straps that hold them on and are much more reliable. Look in the forums here as I recall Stu posted a great site to get generic replacements at a very sweet discount.

 

[Alansails]

I am 3 hrs from the boat and will get there on Sunday-tomorrow- how common is this issue?
I am still holding out hope it is a smaller "Burp" issue, but will deal with it, a friend has found a heat ex on the net for $330. that is way better than the yards estimate for OEM of $1492.00!-for the part!
Ray our boat is a 2001 not sure when the braze-on was changed but will see, but I will just replace if needed. Yard guy said something about the vibration "Wore a hole in it"? with a bracket missing?
Anyway we go and check it out and I will update you as to what happens, I will attempt to find Stus article.
MANY THANKS.

 

[valcour]

I recommend you start spraying some Kano Kroil penetrating oil on the bolts every time you get to the boat while you trouible shoot. I recently pulled my engine into the cabin sole to replace the damper plate, and isolator mounts. While it was out I removed the heat exchanger to have it cleaned at a radiator shop, and broke off one of the bolts that go into the bell housing. Take your time and go easy. This is on a 2003 model with 880 hours. The HX passed a pressure test after cleaning. This has the slide clamps not brazed to the hx.

 

[MitchM]

drain your antifreeze, & plan to replace with all new, take off your old ht x , get new one , fit new gaskets to new ht x , and mount on mounting brackets ,tighten all hose clamps , change thermostat , fill system with proper antifreeze and while u are at it. . my guess is 4 hours and it is not rocket science. (I had to do all of the above --except replace ht x -- when a small piece of impeller broke off and traveled in to block one channel of my ht x. my total time about 4 hrs. )

 

[SimiSAilor]

Alan,
The brackets that hold the heat exchanger do break. Please search "heat exchanger brackets" on this forum and you will find pictures of the newer heavy duty brackets. I had an engine vibration issue and traced it down to both brackets broken.

If a broken bracket did rub through the body of the heat exchanger I think you would be seeing seawater in the bilge not coolant. The coolant runs in the tubes inside the heat exchanger. Sounds like you have a leak at a hose connection.

 

[SG]

A replacement heat exchanger (at least for the Yanmar 4JTE) is VERY Expensive from Yanmar. There are some non-Yanmar units that are less expensive.

Where is the "Leak" at? In the case from vibration between the engine and some fixed object?

It really shouldn't be touching anything that isn't vibrating in sync with the engine?

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

Alan, there are two places to check. Mr. Cool who sells heat exchangers for our motor for $450. They also sell improved brackets that are not subject to the braking and causing a hole like the factory ones. The second place to check is the shop at Bert Jabin's Yacht Yard in Annapolis, MD. Don't know the exact name of the shop, so you would have to call the yard and ask them the name and number. Rumor has it that this shop is who supplies Universal and that an exchange direct from them is $250-300.

This is a common flaw in our motors. I caught mine before the broken bracket put a whole in the exchanger. The replacement is easy. It's 2 bolts to hold the exchanger on and 4 hoses. You could do it easily. The biggest help would be to have a universal joint for your socket set. The Mr. Cool brackets make the job easy because you bolt the brackets to the engine first then put the exchanger in the brackets.

Good luck,

Jesse

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

http://www.mrcool.us/200420cn-universal-westerbeke-medalist-heat-exchanger.html

Actually $421 plus shipping with the improved brackets. There is a different model for freshwater use.

 

[Alansails]

Thanks off to the boat tomorrow will know for sure than...
YARD SAYS 8 Hours.....
I cannot imagine..also said they would have to remove the fuel filters too??????????????? WOW
This is another reason why this forum is great!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rpwillia]

Saw where Stu posted that Sen-Dure was the company that sold replacement heat exchangers. You may want to call them, but here is one link I found.
http://www.sen-dure.com/products-pa...oolers/westerbeke/westerbeke-heat-exchangers/

 

[Alansails]

Thanks Ray
off to the boat!

 

[Tom J]

Thanks off to the boat tomorrow will know for sure than...
YARD SAYS 8 Hours.....
I cannot imagine..also said they would have to remove the fuel filters too??????????????? WOW
This is another reason why this forum is great!!!!!!!!!!!

Really? The fuel filter on my 2003 is in a separate area, nowhere near the exchanger. The labor might include removing the bulkhead aft of the engine, although it shouldn't take more than an hour to remove the bulkhead. It is possible to work on the exchanger without removing the bulkhead, but I personally have removed the bulkhead each time I worked in that area. You will find that installing the new brackets will involve bending the brackets to fit the exchanger to its new environment, and that will be difficult with the bulkhead in place. Be sure that you can access the dip stick for the transmission once the new brackets are in place.

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

Fuel filters were added during commissioning by the broker. (Some electronics were too, this depends on the broker) So there is no consistent place where they were put. Most have the Racor R20 because they take up less space then the Racor 500. A lot of boats have the R20 in the engine room (under the stairs to the starboard side of the engine). Technically this installation is in violation of the manufacturer specs and therefore USCG regulations. Because of the clear plastic bowl they are not intended for engine room installation.

Personally, mine is still under the stairs. I would love to find another spot to put it that it can be easily checked (I put a flashlight to the bowl as part of my pre-departure check on a passage) but I haven't found a spot.

Even better I would love to find a spot to put a Racor 500. The cost for R20 filters in the Caribbean are $38 and up. Plus they are harder to find. The Racor 500 filters are $8 and up and can be found everywhere. Even better, two Racor 500s setup with a manifold and electric fuel lift pump as a fuel polisher and the ability to bypass one filter if it cloggs while on passage.

Sorry for the fuel filter rant.

Back to the heat exchangers, you can do the replacement without removing the bulk head. I did. But the best long term solution is to make a removable panel to get access to the back of the motor. I can check my transmission fluid in about 45 seconds. That was my motivation in setting up my boat with such a panel. Other access is a bonus.

I made a panel with a 4 inch bump out. This allows me to have no insulation wrap on the exhaust/mixing elbow. It's more efficient and allows for the quick inspection of the elbow for breaks and leaks.

Fair winds,

Jesse

 

[Alansails]

The SAGA continues.....
We are at the boat, went to the head manager for the mechanic, said We want to move our boat (A friend and I examined it yesterday-the bracket is missing, and the petcock is frozen/rusted closed-there is movement in the heat exchanger.) The manager started out at the beginning of our dialoque with the end is here for the heat exchanger and you should leave the boat until after memorial day when we can get to it.
Well today we were told-it will be alright all summer and when you come back for the fall we can deal with it than-........ We left, sailed over to our summer marina, have the new credible mechanic coming Wednesday with a heat exchanger! I will update as to how he does it...

 

[Alansails]

Thanks to Jesse, Ray and ALL for responding Here is what happened.
The mechanic came with the new Heat X and it took him a little over two 1/2 hrs to get the old one out and put the new one in, he did not have to remove the bulkhead but he did a lot of contortions that would have killed me and taken me days! While draining antifreeze and removing hoses in the process he found some hoses chafed that he replaced, he also replaced our Sherwood pump with the Oberdorfer we had previously purchased that I was going to install BUT since he had most of the work done I had him put the Oberdorfer on along with replacement hoses-some were original.
The new heat X came with brackets, which he added pads to prevent chafe and also complete brackets also came with it. He also replaced at our request the diesel filters, as it had been two years, he also adjusted the engine idle to 1K RPM, adjusted the alternator belt and tightened the throttle handle, he re-added antifreeze (New that I had brought along) and burped the coolant, cleaned the engine and compartment and put a pad underneath the engine. He had an answer for the fuel gauge that is NOW working right-like going to a DR with a cold and by the time you show up you are healthy-due to the cold weather the sending unit just moved slow-seems to be ok now.
He also cleaned up the anti-siphon hose arrangement on top of the engine that was not proper set up.
At the back of our engine we have additional lines run for heater/air etc so they were also a hinderance.
Total labor time was 5 3/4 hrs. He was NOT slacking and took no lunch break but worked solidly and he was worn out when he left. Engine runs fine, no leaks and We were happy when he left. Total bill was cheaper than one of the estimates for other marinas heat X and we did not have to wait three more weeks and tie up two days to have them do it. We feel that we are good for at least two years with fuel filters and new impeller on the oberdorfer, new hoses and anti freeze change. We are ready for cruising with no interruptions-Fingers crossed!
Again thanks to all for your input!

 

[Bob James]

Alan, who was the mechanic?

 

[SG]

Fuel filters were added during commissioning by the broker. (Some electronics were too, this depends on the broker) So there is no consistent place where they were put. Most have the Racor R20 because they take up less space then the Racor 500. A lot of boats have the R20 in the engine room (under the stairs to the starboard side of the engine). Technically this installation is in violation of the manufacturer specs and therefore USCG regulations. Because of the clear plastic bowl they are not intended for engine room installation.

Personally, mine is still under the stairs. I would love to find another spot to put it that it can be easily checked (I put a flashlight to the bowl as part of my pre-departure check on a passage) but I haven't found a spot.

Even better I would love to find a spot to put a Racor 500. The cost for R20 filters in the Caribbean are $38 and up. Plus they are harder to find. The Racor 500 filters are $8 and up and can be found everywhere. Even better, two Racor 500s setup with a manifold and electric fuel lift pump as a fuel polisher and the ability to bypass one filter if it cloggs while on passage.

Sorry for the fuel filter rant.

Jesse

You can have plastic bowls with new or retrofitted Racor units and comply with AYBC standards.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/racor--heat-deflector-kits--P006_180_003_552

There are a lot of diesel boats with the older filters without those heat shields. I never heard of one being an issue. If the engine compartment is engulfed in flames long enough for the fire to penetrate the Racor filter, I can't believe it makes a difference on a sailboat.