Once again I turn to the forum for help. I was sailing today in 10 to 15 knot winds on the missisippi river. winds where ENW my question is this I had a couple of heavy and sudden knockdowns, looking back I quess I should have picked up on it before it happened and sailed closer to the wind. When this happens I try and turn into the wind and also let out the main. As I drove home though I began to think would it be better to turn the boat the way of the healing example my boat was healing hard to starboard the leeward side I turned to windward. What if I would have just turned the boat to starbaord would it right itself quicker? It was pretty white knuckle for a bit and I let it happen to me twice. Other than that it was a perfect sailing day.
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Tom
Ease the sails...
esp the main, or if you have one, ease the traveller. If you are flying a big genny, it can pull you over, too. Turning into the wind will also help, but sometimes the momentum of the turn can temporarily add to the heeling forces. Like a turning SUV wants to roll over, away from the turn. About your question, if you turn downwind (into the heel) you are going to make matters worse becuase the sail will be put flat across the wind, increasing the forces trying to blow you over. You would have to ease the main even more to compensate. What I try to do is maintain course if possible and ease the sails during a gust. Learn to read the water and other signs around you. It takes a little practice, but you'll pick it up quick. Darker patches or more/higher chop indicates more wind velocity. Look ahead and from the direction of the wind to try to read any changes coming up. Also, in inland waters, the topography (and architecture) around you can influence the wind to a large degree. Fair winds... Tom
esp the main, or if you have one, ease the traveller. If you are flying a big genny, it can pull you over, too. Turning into the wind will also help, but sometimes the momentum of the turn can temporarily add to the heeling forces. Like a turning SUV wants to roll over, away from the turn. About your question, if you turn downwind (into the heel) you are going to make matters worse becuase the sail will be put flat across the wind, increasing the forces trying to blow you over. You would have to ease the main even more to compensate. What I try to do is maintain course if possible and ease the sails during a gust. Learn to read the water and other signs around you. It takes a little practice, but you'll pick it up quick. Darker patches or more/higher chop indicates more wind velocity. Look ahead and from the direction of the wind to try to read any changes coming up. Also, in inland waters, the topography (and architecture) around you can influence the wind to a large degree. Fair winds... Tom
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David Foster
Watch the water
A gust will darken the water by stirring up little wavelets as it passes. So you can see them coming, and be ready to ease the traveler (or mainsheet) in a timely way. Such gusts are a regular feature of sailing inland waters in the middle of the continent! David Lady Lillie
A gust will darken the water by stirring up little wavelets as it passes. So you can see them coming, and be ready to ease the traveler (or mainsheet) in a timely way. Such gusts are a regular feature of sailing inland waters in the middle of the continent! David Lady Lillie
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Just be thankful that you were only battling ENW..
...winds. if they had been the dreaded NSW or EWN winds you would have been in BIG trouble! ;-)
...winds. if they had been the dreaded NSW or EWN winds you would have been in BIG trouble! ;-)
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Hayden
My wife hates more than a 15 degree
heal. I have learned to reef the main if winfds are more than 10 knots, and always keep the main sheet in my hand, ready to release the sail should a gust hit or the winds pick up. It keeps her happy!!!! I also turn into the wind. Turning away can cause extreme anxiety in all aboard, when the leeward rail dips below the waters surface. Fair winds Hayden
heal. I have learned to reef the main if winfds are more than 10 knots, and always keep the main sheet in my hand, ready to release the sail should a gust hit or the winds pick up. It keeps her happy!!!! I also turn into the wind. Turning away can cause extreme anxiety in all aboard, when the leeward rail dips below the waters surface. Fair winds Hayden
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Bryan
Air foil?
It has been my experience that if you push it past it's point of heel, 30 to 35 degrees or so, the rudder looses all effectiveness, and the boat it's self will turn into the wind and flatten out. You are completely out of control, but the aerodynamic forces pull the genny around into the wind act as airfoil. Thus you heel very hard, rail deep into the water and then poof, your flat and almost in irons. Just make sure nobody falls into the water! Complicates matters extremely. Good to get scared a bit though. Will increase your confidence, sailing ability, and where your "groove" is! 10 to 15 knots is a safe educational windspeed, watch the 35 to 40's.
It has been my experience that if you push it past it's point of heel, 30 to 35 degrees or so, the rudder looses all effectiveness, and the boat it's self will turn into the wind and flatten out. You are completely out of control, but the aerodynamic forces pull the genny around into the wind act as airfoil. Thus you heel very hard, rail deep into the water and then poof, your flat and almost in irons. Just make sure nobody falls into the water! Complicates matters extremely. Good to get scared a bit though. Will increase your confidence, sailing ability, and where your "groove" is! 10 to 15 knots is a safe educational windspeed, watch the 35 to 40's.
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Jonathan Costello
Amen Hayden!
The number one goal is to keep mama happy! I pose the question to the members of the jury, "Why is this?" Because, if mama's not happy then nobody's happy!!!!
The number one goal is to keep mama happy! I pose the question to the members of the jury, "Why is this?" Because, if mama's not happy then nobody's happy!!!!
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Dave Noack
Yep
My Wife also dislikes more than 10 or 15 degrees of healing, or tipping as she refers to it. Although I have repeatedly explained the physics involved in actually "tipping" a keelboat over, she remains steadfast in her opinion and repeatedly remind me when we are "tipping" too far in her opinion, I usually veer slightly into the wind to keep an even keel rather than constantly sheeting the main.
My Wife also dislikes more than 10 or 15 degrees of healing, or tipping as she refers to it. Although I have repeatedly explained the physics involved in actually "tipping" a keelboat over, she remains steadfast in her opinion and repeatedly remind me when we are "tipping" too far in her opinion, I usually veer slightly into the wind to keep an even keel rather than constantly sheeting the main.
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Mark Major
Yes, Jonathan, why is this?
I have an audible clinometer when my wife is aboard, and know a shriek comes at 20', after the hoot and holler indications at 10' and 15' respectively...nearing 10' she grumbles. She's accurate as hell, too, as witnessed by guests aboard I just have to demonstrate her to (I know, it's sadistic, and all try not to laugh..so cry in mirth) Over time I have tried most patiently to teach her the dynamics of a sailboat, put the tiller and main sheet in her hand, even encouraged her to mentally prepare for what she fears most, to no avail. What's a lonely sailor to do? She loves to accompany me on the boat when moored, motoring, or sometimes in the mildest conditions, and still is willing to try to overcome this fear of hers. I'm quite the single hander as a result, though. Any advice on how to share this passion with the one I've loved much longer? Mark Major s/v Lesismor (named for Leslie, my wife) 86h23
I have an audible clinometer when my wife is aboard, and know a shriek comes at 20', after the hoot and holler indications at 10' and 15' respectively...nearing 10' she grumbles. She's accurate as hell, too, as witnessed by guests aboard I just have to demonstrate her to (I know, it's sadistic, and all try not to laugh..so cry in mirth) Over time I have tried most patiently to teach her the dynamics of a sailboat, put the tiller and main sheet in her hand, even encouraged her to mentally prepare for what she fears most, to no avail. What's a lonely sailor to do? She loves to accompany me on the boat when moored, motoring, or sometimes in the mildest conditions, and still is willing to try to overcome this fear of hers. I'm quite the single hander as a result, though. Any advice on how to share this passion with the one I've loved much longer? Mark Major s/v Lesismor (named for Leslie, my wife) 86h23
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crazy dave
Heeling over 15-17, I will dust you
So often, I hear that you really have to heel over to get speed. Bunk! You will scare the hell out of loved ones, friends and so forth for the first reason why not to do it. I have had my share of sailors from hell who do not know what they are doing. Secondly, I have proven time and time again even with a knot meter that trimming and reefing are the main ingredients to learn to have a faster boat with less heel. I have always preached 13-15 or maybe up to 17 is all you need. I say this from experienc ever since the day I first sailed the very first water ballast Hunter sailboat. Crazy Dave Condon
So often, I hear that you really have to heel over to get speed. Bunk! You will scare the hell out of loved ones, friends and so forth for the first reason why not to do it. I have had my share of sailors from hell who do not know what they are doing. Secondly, I have proven time and time again even with a knot meter that trimming and reefing are the main ingredients to learn to have a faster boat with less heel. I have always preached 13-15 or maybe up to 17 is all you need. I say this from experienc ever since the day I first sailed the very first water ballast Hunter sailboat. Crazy Dave Condon
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Richard Owen
Dave's Right
As Dave said, excessive heeling may be exciting, but it is definitely not good sailing. In the extreme, you will loose control of the boat completely. If you can learn to feel the boat's groove and respond with adjustment to the traveller and the helm when you feel the boat start to go over sailing in moderate breezes will offer no problems - and it should be quite comfortable for all aboard. Don't release the mainsheet because this puts more draft and therefore more power into the main when you want to de-power it. As the wind increases, you should be flattening the sail more not opening it up. If you have a good vang which will hold the boom down when the mainsheet is released, it will work, but you don't want the boom rising to open up the draft in the main. The biggest task with sailing in inland waters is that there is often little warning as to when the big gust hits. As other have said it's important to watch the water closely in gusting conditions. For sure, don't turn away from the wind unless you have let the sails well off and wish to change course to a run. Even this move is best done after the gust has subsided. ROwen
As Dave said, excessive heeling may be exciting, but it is definitely not good sailing. In the extreme, you will loose control of the boat completely. If you can learn to feel the boat's groove and respond with adjustment to the traveller and the helm when you feel the boat start to go over sailing in moderate breezes will offer no problems - and it should be quite comfortable for all aboard. Don't release the mainsheet because this puts more draft and therefore more power into the main when you want to de-power it. As the wind increases, you should be flattening the sail more not opening it up. If you have a good vang which will hold the boom down when the mainsheet is released, it will work, but you don't want the boom rising to open up the draft in the main. The biggest task with sailing in inland waters is that there is often little warning as to when the big gust hits. As other have said it's important to watch the water closely in gusting conditions. For sure, don't turn away from the wind unless you have let the sails well off and wish to change course to a run. Even this move is best done after the gust has subsided. ROwen
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Mex Vet
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crazy dave
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Ray Trombino
"Groove" for H-260
Dave is right on target. Thirteen to 17 degrees heel gives the best speed, good stability, and even my wife can live with it on the windward side. She, too, is an audible clinomenter, but with much higher tolerances. Ray
Dave is right on target. Thirteen to 17 degrees heel gives the best speed, good stability, and even my wife can live with it on the windward side. She, too, is an audible clinomenter, but with much higher tolerances. Ray
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