Headsail size?

[Hydro Therapy]

So I’m considering replacing my headsail on my fractional rig Precision 28. I was led to believe that my current sail is original. My sailmaker told me it is a 145%. I’ve searched a few online companies and they list the original replacements at 135%. I then went online and was able to locate the manufacturers spec sheet. They list the original headsail as a Lapper 110%. Not a whole lot of Precision 28s out there but maybe someone knows the answer.

Is a Lapper 110% the same as a Genoa 135% or 145%?

Thanks

 

[LakeOntario270]

Here is a simple picture to explain the difference between a 130 and a 150 Genoa. If you measure your sail LP and J dimensions you can then calculate the overlap.

 

[dlochner]

s a Lapper 110% the same as a Genoa 135% or 145%?

Short answer, No.

The percentage refer to the "Luff Perpendicular" (LP) of the sail in relation to the foretriangle. Here's one explanation: Jasper & Bailey Sailmakers. There are many more. The bigger the percentage, the larger the sail.

I would not be surprised that the original equipment headsail was a 110%, with a larger headsail as an option. A 110 is cheaper to build. The big question is what kind of conditions do you typically sail in and do you have roller furling. If you typically sail in lighter conditions a bigger headsail is helpful. If the conditions are more boisterous then a smaller headsail is more appropriate. A good sailmaker can help you work through the choices.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I'll agree with Dave. If you don't have a 110%, you may have an optional up-size. My Starwind 27 was also designed by Jim Taylor and the standard jib was 110%. (aside from my masthead rig, the boats are very similar when you look at the hull form.) You should be able to measure your sail and the size. I think rather than worry about what size is your old sail, put more focus on what size you want to have. My genoa measures at about 145%. I think it is too big for our conditions. We see a lot of high wind and I want to downsize to no larger than 135% for a genoa and maybe 100 to 110% for a jib.

 

[dlochner]

So, @Scott T-Bird, @Hydro Therapy and I all have Jim Taylor designs. Cool.

State Of The Art Yacht Design Services by Jim Taylor Yacht Designs

 

[Hydro Therapy]

I agree Scott, it probably was upgraded. I will probably go with the 135. It’s a shame my self tailing winches weren’t upgraded. I always have to hold the tail while winching or the sheet will slip out of the teeth. I’ve tried everything and nothing solves the problem. There probably sized for the 110.

 

[dlochner]

I always have to hold the tail while winching or the sheet will slip out of the teeth.

Try new sheets that are a size larger than the sheets you are using. If you are using ⅜" sheets, go to 7/16". The sheet size has to match the winch self tailer.

 

[DrJudyB]

I’ve tried everything and nothing solves the problem.

Check the diameter of the line first, compared to the specs on the winches.

If the line is still slipping, the jaws are probably worn. Replace them. Look at the pic below. If you look carefully, you can see some worn spots on the raised ribs of the jaws. Some brands call the parts jaws;
other brands call them crowns.

c

 

[dlochner]

I always have to hold the tail while winching or the sheet will slip out of the teeth.

After posting an earlier response to this comment, I realized there are 3 possibilities, the sheet is too small, the jaws are worn, or the sheet is too large. If the sheets are too large for the winch, they will tend to slip out of the jaws. Larger sheets are easier on the hands, but add extra weight and expense. What size sheets do you have on the boat? What size winch? For a 28' boat, ⅜" or 7/16" sheets should be adequate. Half inch will be easier on the hand, but may not fit in the jaws as well.

 

[Hydro Therapy]

I’ve spent a small fortune on sheeting this year. Three different diameters and they all slipped. All three where within the specs. I’ve tried several different positions with the stripper arm. The jaws seem to be fine but may be the culprit. The starboard winch holds a little better then the port. Ive been meaning to swap the drums and see if it makes a difference. If so then I will know the jaws are the culprit. My winches are Harken ST16 single speed.

 

[Davidasailor26]

How many turns do you put around the winch before going into the jaws? 3 is the number that works best for us. 2 turns and it tends to slip; 4 turns and it overrides more easily and is unnecessary on all but the windiest days.

 

[Hydro Therapy]

I should of added that. I wrap the sheet 3 times.

 

[DArcy]

The type of rope makes a difference as well. Some low stretch lines like Vectran or Dyneema are less grippy and will slip in the jaws on some winches. Gold old polyester double braid works well but does stretch.
Regarding the head sail size, as previously mentioned the wind you normally sail in makes a difference but also what other sails you have available. If you have a good down wind, reaching sail, or a light air sail, then go a bit smaller. If you are trying to cover all points of sail with your one head sail you may want to go a bit bigger.
Not much fun on a light wind deep reach or run with nothing more than a 110% jib.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Getting back to the sail question, most sailboats are sold new with a smaller working type jib - depending on the manufacture, etc. Hunter usually sold a 135%, others smaller, etc. and with many boats (but not all) you have the option to purchase a larger headsail which is nice when the wind is lighter and more sail area will move the boat along better in those conditions. But, you also have to consider deck hardware if you go to a larger genoa. The further aft the clew (the corner that attaches to the sheet), the further aft you need to have a track to adjust the lead of your larger genoa. The Precision 28 has a deck to accommodate a longer track, but some boats don't. Most larger genoas purchased are 150% or 155% (which is the max allowed for PHRF handicapping for racers without getting a handicap hit for a larger sail). If you already have a 145%, then a 150% won't give you much more of an advantage.

 

[Hydro Therapy]

Thanks for all the feedback. I think I will go with the 135%. As far as the winches I just swapped the drums. Previously the starboard one held the sheet pretty well. Now that there swapped the port side grips. So it appears the jaws are worn one side more then the other. Looks like I will order new ones along with a sail.

 

[Hydro Therapy]

I apologize for the topic going from headsail to winches but I wanted to follow up on my winches. Thanks to the above advice I determined that the jaws on my Harken ST16 are worn and causing the sheet slippage. I pulled the drums and realized that the drum and lower jaws are one solid unit. Apparently a newer version allowed the user to replace the jaws. I contacted Harken and learned they have a upgrade kit that replaces the upper jaw only. The price for a pair was $400. The Harken rep was very honest and advised that the older 16s never worked well. I decided to throw in a boat buck and replace my winches. I read good reviews on Anderson/Ronstan so I bought a pair of 18 ST. They came in the other day and look to be very well made. I won’t know until next season.