Headroom
- Thread starter Bugzy
- Start date
Yea, it cannot be much different than owning a house really, just that everything is so much smaller.
Yes, the 25' O'day was limited in space and comfort for our family of 4. My wife was not interested in camping in tight quarters so enter the Catalina 310. Also the size is more tender then my wife liked so the added weight and stability of the Catalina 310 was another positive. We don't regret the O'Day 25, and truthfully we would not have tried sailing with a boat as new and expensive as the Catalina. We bought something cheap and learned what we wanted, you have to start some place. I'd just adjust your expectations, day sailing for a couple of hours might be all you can get out of the first boat, but you will learn what you need next.
Another factor in some getting a X or M is the powerboat feature. Grandparents and parents both post at times that some kids can become bored with sailing but being pulled around on a tube makes them smile. I don't think MacGregor tried to make a boat that would do both sail and motor with the X and then the M models. He knew exactly who his audience was and hit a home run with the boats for that audience. Sold tons of them.
I considered a X because it has the swing centerboard and the M has a dagger board but felt the S fit our needs better and have been very happy with the choice but also know a lot of X and M owners that for them the S would of been a bad choice. I've never been in a hurry being retired. Some that are still working like that they can get to a lake Friday evening. Be in the water in 45 minutes and be 20 miles up the lake an hour after that away from the crowds. Sail Saturday and Sunday and motor back late Sunday afternoon and be home before dark. Can't do that with a displacement hull.
It is all about what fits you and your family,
Sumner
============================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
I considered a X because it has the swing centerboard and the M has a dagger board but felt the S fit our needs better and have been very happy with the choice but also know a lot of X and M owners that for them the S would of been a bad choice. I've never been in a hurry being retired. Some that are still working like that they can get to a lake Friday evening. Be in the water in 45 minutes and be 20 miles up the lake an hour after that away from the crowds. Sail Saturday and Sunday and motor back late Sunday afternoon and be home before dark. Can't do that with a displacement hull.
It is all about what fits you and your family,
Sumner
============================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
I have to say I am in awe of the mods you made Sumner, incredible stuff really. You are quite handy at it all. Your changes have also inspired me with these smaller boats. I believe I can make one of them work with a few mods such as you did. I doubt I would ever go to the extreme you did though, but wow, impressive.
10hp. Fat fingers.No motor at all? Oh wait, that is supposed to be 10hp, not 0hp. nm.
"~some kids can become bored with sailing but being pulled around on a tube makes them smile."
I just tossed 100ft of floating line off the back of my Mac and let the young'uns grab on. They enjoyed being towed under sail, and when the 25 year old neighbor lost her top, that made me smile...........
I just tossed 100ft of floating line off the back of my Mac and let the young'uns grab on. They enjoyed being towed under sail, and when the 25 year old neighbor lost her top, that made me smile...........
Here comes a novel! You've been warned - but hopefully my story gives you at least one teeny something : )
I'm a sailor. I'll never forget during my CYA Basic out in the Gulf Islands 'the moment' I got it. We had raised the sails turned into the wind and then switched off the diesel. It hit me immediately. So amazing to be at one with mother nature like that. Don't know if I could live without it now.
Enter the kids (and wife). Our oldest, now 9 is very analytical (yes, from birth). As a result she's terrified of everything until she figures it out on her own. No degree of reassurances can prep her for her own decision making so I was petrified of the monohull experience and how it would go over.
We had a beach cat prior to the MacGregor but I cursed myself with that boat. I'd bring it home from the lake and while rinsing it down would let the kids up on the tramps to bounce around. Well, our first family sail on the cat the kids thought it must be bounce around time.......we knew right away we needed a better 'container' for the kids.
We got the Mac when our youngest was 2 and for the first year or two it was just "my boat". Dad and I took it out a few times and after his attempts at the helm in heavy weather to drown us - attempts which the MacGregor responded with a "Nope - can't tip me" attitude I knew we had made a good choice. I'd seen the "unsinkable" promo videos online and that's one thing, sure. But these boats - if you overpower them or push them too hard they seem to just round up into the wind and all chaos subsides. I don't know if this is by design but it's certainly been my experience. Granted this is on inland flat water but still....point is I felt very safe and in control of this boat and confident that I could keep my family safe.
When our youngest was just about 3 we took our Mac with us to the annual summer camping trip. As fate would have it we were having troubles with the outboard so the boat just sat in the water but that was actually the plan anyway - I had no intention of taking them out on the boat that trip. We just used it as a beach toy. I had zero intention of setting sail with the family on board until I knew they were completely comfortable on the boat but I wanted the wife and kids to get acquainted with it. I was playing the long game but I had to start it somewhere. We had lunches on the boat. Played on the boat. I rigged up buckets on lines for the kids to haul water up and then gave them each a scrub brush so they could "clean" the boat. They loved it. The wife, she laid back on the port cockpit cushion with a book and ultimately drifted off to sleep.
Step one - complete.
We didn't get back on the boat as a family that summer - time just wasn't right but I was able to get out a few times and managed a solo overnight right at the end of the season. I have a photo of the dusk that night and you'd swear I was in the tropics. It was this trip where I realized one issue we'd need to overcome - the head. Myself included. I've yet to find a solid solution to this one yet but we'll figure it out this summer. Plan A is to use it as needed but only if shore facilities aren't accessible. Plan B (don't laugh) is to move the portapottie to the foredeck and enclose it with one of those pop up beach change room things - lashed to the mast/shrouds/lifelines. Plan C....well, let's hope A or B works......Truly I think the biggest holdup is me and my wife....and maybe just me. I couldn't do #2 with my wife in the bathroom with me and there's not a lot of difference on the Mac to my mind. But if ya gotta go ya gotta go. I'll keep you posted on how this summer goes.
Year two - annual camping trip. Outboard issues resolved and the plan for this trip was just to motor around a bit. Head down the lake, have lunch and then go back to camp. We did just that and despite all urges I left the sails furled and covered. More bucket fishing and deck swabbing and wife snoozing. Another trip out the next day. And the next. Step two - complete.
Again the rest of that season kept us from any family boating but that's OK. I was in no hurry.
And I think that's the key for me here. I was in no rush. I didn't want to do anything at any point that would give anyone any reason to think maybe they didn't like this. I went to painstaking lengths to passively make sure each and every experience on the boat was a pleasant one right from the start. Even when it's parked at home on the street out front. There's no forcing them to come aboard and chill out, no bickering if they do, no getting upset if they get scared off the boat by a fly. I'm letting them help determine what I can do to make the boat more pleasurable for them and have my instructions for their own reading lights and a shelf here for my books and a hook here for my towel etc. We got them their own kayaks which we will be building a bridle setup for towing behind the Mac (thanks Walt).
Long game, season 3. Family camping trip.
This was the year for the sails! We motored out for our lunch picnic on the boat, some relaxing, some playing and then on the way home I was treated with dead down wind conditions in light air. The sails were up and the motor was off! Sure, we weren't heeling but that was part of the plan. We all took in the moment together and I was on cloud nine.
Step Three. Triumph.
Very little else that season again but we were ready for Season 4. Full sail, overnight (sorta).
We hit a different lake that year and at the advice of a fellow forum user (Meriachee) took the boat OUT of the water for our overnight excursion. Big winds were threatening to build and he knew my long game plans and that I was still wanting every experience to be a positive one. We left the boat, mast up a the marina y the launch and drove around the lake to what was our overnight destination - a friends' BnB. We had planned to sail over to her cove and hop back on land for the night. Sorta like "real sailing" out on the coast.
The next day we woke to nice weather, dropped the boat in the water and motored out of the marina cove. Out on the lake we had near perfect reach winds and the sails came out. The boat heeled and I heard...nothing. Well I heard some laughter as our oldest delighted in the stuff below rolling off the settees. But no fears, no cries, no terror. And we were HEELED. As Macs do. Right over to 17 degrees or so and then steady. Steady enough that my wife laid back on the cockpit fusion and drifted off to sleep.
Plan complete. For now.
Our first (of hopefully many) overnights will take place in a Walmart parking lot in just a few weeks. This is so the kids can get used to the 'mattresses' (we've bought memory foam mattress toppers in hopes tha that helps and have underlined all of them with that puzzle piece foam stuff cut to fit perfectly). The parking lot mooring is also so the wife and I can figure out those things we might have forgotten like can openers, coffee cups etc. And it's to cook on the boat acquainting ourselves with the alcohol stove (Origo) and stove top oven (Omnia from Sea Dog Boating - best price out there - even to Canada). If all goes according to plan we will drag our Mac BACK to the salt water we bought her off of - White Rock - next May/June for an extended trip. Our boat lived on the hard, mast up in a very secure marina there. It was quite a ways up the creek but hey, you're sailing, what's the rush? If you like I can look up the marina for you so you can inquire about rates. Seemed like a good facility with launch assistance (I believe) and freshwater wash afterwards. Even for the outboard.
If you haven't already, absorb all of this site. This is Walt from this forum. I was worried about the close quarters (with the dog even) so I emailed him. They totally did it. That was all the convincing I needed. http://analogengineering.com/sail/powell/powell2009.html
That's my novel. Sorry if it was all blab and no substance. I feel like I've done the right things to this point though...and it was all done heeding the advice of my sail instructor who told me "All of my friends used to give me grief when I wouldn't hit the water when the winds were ripping" (this was back in his Hobie Cat days). He just kept telling them "if my wife doesn't want to sail, we're not sailing". Which earned him more ribbing but he didn't care. Now, 30 some years later, of all the "guys" from back then...he's the only one still sailing with his wife. He told me to make sure every experience was a pleasant one and maybe, just maybe I can foster a love of sailing in the family. It's worked so far.
I'm a sailor. I'll never forget during my CYA Basic out in the Gulf Islands 'the moment' I got it. We had raised the sails turned into the wind and then switched off the diesel. It hit me immediately. So amazing to be at one with mother nature like that. Don't know if I could live without it now.
Enter the kids (and wife). Our oldest, now 9 is very analytical (yes, from birth). As a result she's terrified of everything until she figures it out on her own. No degree of reassurances can prep her for her own decision making so I was petrified of the monohull experience and how it would go over.
We had a beach cat prior to the MacGregor but I cursed myself with that boat. I'd bring it home from the lake and while rinsing it down would let the kids up on the tramps to bounce around. Well, our first family sail on the cat the kids thought it must be bounce around time.......we knew right away we needed a better 'container' for the kids.
We got the Mac when our youngest was 2 and for the first year or two it was just "my boat". Dad and I took it out a few times and after his attempts at the helm in heavy weather to drown us - attempts which the MacGregor responded with a "Nope - can't tip me" attitude I knew we had made a good choice. I'd seen the "unsinkable" promo videos online and that's one thing, sure. But these boats - if you overpower them or push them too hard they seem to just round up into the wind and all chaos subsides. I don't know if this is by design but it's certainly been my experience. Granted this is on inland flat water but still....point is I felt very safe and in control of this boat and confident that I could keep my family safe.
When our youngest was just about 3 we took our Mac with us to the annual summer camping trip. As fate would have it we were having troubles with the outboard so the boat just sat in the water but that was actually the plan anyway - I had no intention of taking them out on the boat that trip. We just used it as a beach toy. I had zero intention of setting sail with the family on board until I knew they were completely comfortable on the boat but I wanted the wife and kids to get acquainted with it. I was playing the long game but I had to start it somewhere. We had lunches on the boat. Played on the boat. I rigged up buckets on lines for the kids to haul water up and then gave them each a scrub brush so they could "clean" the boat. They loved it. The wife, she laid back on the port cockpit cushion with a book and ultimately drifted off to sleep.
Step one - complete.
We didn't get back on the boat as a family that summer - time just wasn't right but I was able to get out a few times and managed a solo overnight right at the end of the season. I have a photo of the dusk that night and you'd swear I was in the tropics. It was this trip where I realized one issue we'd need to overcome - the head. Myself included. I've yet to find a solid solution to this one yet but we'll figure it out this summer. Plan A is to use it as needed but only if shore facilities aren't accessible. Plan B (don't laugh) is to move the portapottie to the foredeck and enclose it with one of those pop up beach change room things - lashed to the mast/shrouds/lifelines. Plan C....well, let's hope A or B works......Truly I think the biggest holdup is me and my wife....and maybe just me. I couldn't do #2 with my wife in the bathroom with me and there's not a lot of difference on the Mac to my mind. But if ya gotta go ya gotta go. I'll keep you posted on how this summer goes.
Year two - annual camping trip. Outboard issues resolved and the plan for this trip was just to motor around a bit. Head down the lake, have lunch and then go back to camp. We did just that and despite all urges I left the sails furled and covered. More bucket fishing and deck swabbing and wife snoozing. Another trip out the next day. And the next. Step two - complete.
Again the rest of that season kept us from any family boating but that's OK. I was in no hurry.
And I think that's the key for me here. I was in no rush. I didn't want to do anything at any point that would give anyone any reason to think maybe they didn't like this. I went to painstaking lengths to passively make sure each and every experience on the boat was a pleasant one right from the start. Even when it's parked at home on the street out front. There's no forcing them to come aboard and chill out, no bickering if they do, no getting upset if they get scared off the boat by a fly. I'm letting them help determine what I can do to make the boat more pleasurable for them and have my instructions for their own reading lights and a shelf here for my books and a hook here for my towel etc. We got them their own kayaks which we will be building a bridle setup for towing behind the Mac (thanks Walt).
Long game, season 3. Family camping trip.
This was the year for the sails! We motored out for our lunch picnic on the boat, some relaxing, some playing and then on the way home I was treated with dead down wind conditions in light air. The sails were up and the motor was off! Sure, we weren't heeling but that was part of the plan. We all took in the moment together and I was on cloud nine.
Step Three. Triumph.
Very little else that season again but we were ready for Season 4. Full sail, overnight (sorta).
We hit a different lake that year and at the advice of a fellow forum user (Meriachee) took the boat OUT of the water for our overnight excursion. Big winds were threatening to build and he knew my long game plans and that I was still wanting every experience to be a positive one. We left the boat, mast up a the marina y the launch and drove around the lake to what was our overnight destination - a friends' BnB. We had planned to sail over to her cove and hop back on land for the night. Sorta like "real sailing" out on the coast.
The next day we woke to nice weather, dropped the boat in the water and motored out of the marina cove. Out on the lake we had near perfect reach winds and the sails came out. The boat heeled and I heard...nothing. Well I heard some laughter as our oldest delighted in the stuff below rolling off the settees. But no fears, no cries, no terror. And we were HEELED. As Macs do. Right over to 17 degrees or so and then steady. Steady enough that my wife laid back on the cockpit fusion and drifted off to sleep.
Plan complete. For now.
Our first (of hopefully many) overnights will take place in a Walmart parking lot in just a few weeks. This is so the kids can get used to the 'mattresses' (we've bought memory foam mattress toppers in hopes tha that helps and have underlined all of them with that puzzle piece foam stuff cut to fit perfectly). The parking lot mooring is also so the wife and I can figure out those things we might have forgotten like can openers, coffee cups etc. And it's to cook on the boat acquainting ourselves with the alcohol stove (Origo) and stove top oven (Omnia from Sea Dog Boating - best price out there - even to Canada). If all goes according to plan we will drag our Mac BACK to the salt water we bought her off of - White Rock - next May/June for an extended trip. Our boat lived on the hard, mast up in a very secure marina there. It was quite a ways up the creek but hey, you're sailing, what's the rush? If you like I can look up the marina for you so you can inquire about rates. Seemed like a good facility with launch assistance (I believe) and freshwater wash afterwards. Even for the outboard.
If you haven't already, absorb all of this site. This is Walt from this forum. I was worried about the close quarters (with the dog even) so I emailed him. They totally did it. That was all the convincing I needed. http://analogengineering.com/sail/powell/powell2009.html
That's my novel. Sorry if it was all blab and no substance. I feel like I've done the right things to this point though...and it was all done heeding the advice of my sail instructor who told me "All of my friends used to give me grief when I wouldn't hit the water when the winds were ripping" (this was back in his Hobie Cat days). He just kept telling them "if my wife doesn't want to sail, we're not sailing". Which earned him more ribbing but he didn't care. Now, 30 some years later, of all the "guys" from back then...he's the only one still sailing with his wife. He told me to make sure every experience was a pleasant one and maybe, just maybe I can foster a love of sailing in the family. It's worked so far.
Great write up MacBoy. To solve the problem with the head for Option 1, we put up a spring loaded curtain rod and curtain so we could leave the door open and still have privacy. I used the porta potty on my knees and for those occasions where one is required to sit, just roll out of the compartment and sit on the settee to pull up the britches.