Having spent years sailing daysailers we have finally purchased our first "big" boat. A Hunter 22. My question is this. When the wind puffs up and the boat is heeling uncomfortably with my experience we would round up into the wind until the puff passes then fall off and continue on course. With the Hunter 22 when we put the helm over to come up the boat heels even further for a couple of seconds. Although it eventually responds properly the initial reaction is a strange feeling. Any thoughts as to sail balance, weight distribution, internally ballasted boats? thanx in advance gary guisinger
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Stephen Ostrander
de-power
When I sailed day sailors, I always de-powered the main or the jib to keep it from rounding up. When I round up I lose headway and boat speed, and control. Excessive heel equals less speed, no matter how fast I think I am going or how good I think I look. Not to mention my wife and kids screaming at me for healing too much.
When I sailed day sailors, I always de-powered the main or the jib to keep it from rounding up. When I round up I lose headway and boat speed, and control. Excessive heel equals less speed, no matter how fast I think I am going or how good I think I look. Not to mention my wife and kids screaming at me for healing too much.
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Capt'n M
Vector Analysis
Okay, lets think about this a little…you are flying along at a 20 degrees heel and the "Back-of-the-neck" tiny hairs tell you that the limit of comfort has been reached. All the books and "Sunfish" experience says turn into the wind, but as you do…the crew starts scrambling for the high side yelling comments about life, seamanship, and your parents martial state at the time of your birth. Been there, done that! What has happen can be explained with an excruciatingly painful class in vector analysis, but… The centerline of the boat is at 20 degrees; the top of water is horizontal (hopefully), so the rudder is at 20 degrees to the top of the water. You move the tiller (probably with a with a wee bit of anxiety) to turn the boat into the wind. This turns the rudder, which up until that moment was experiencing a nice equal flow of water on both sides. Now, the flow on one side slows down and the flow on the other has to speed up. Since we all understand (yeah, right!) how sails and wind work, we have something like "lift" on the rudder. This "Lift" works to turn the boat, but since it is at a 20-degree angle to the top of the water it also works to lift the bow and change the line of the boat. This refigures you righting harm (did you know you had one?) and the boat heels over a tad more. Okay, depending on the anxiety of effort on the tiller one may experience a warning of an eminent underwear change. My Hunter 22, "MoonDancer," has proven to be a typically 1980ish Hunter, in that it lists a bit to starboard and heels with the lightest winds. Having said so, she has many times forgiven my miscalculations in seamanship and delivered me home safe and…dry. As for those days with the occasionally gusty moment and the "Comfort Factor" of yourself or those onboard is two-blocked, try un-cleating the main sheet and adjusting as the wind blows. If the "occasionally gusty moment" is more than occasional, then reefing the sails is definitely in order. These solutions may not be the most efficient (as in heart thumping) styles of sailing, but it allows your crew to unclench the gunwales and let blood back into their white knuckles. This does much for a happy day…
Okay, lets think about this a little…you are flying along at a 20 degrees heel and the "Back-of-the-neck" tiny hairs tell you that the limit of comfort has been reached. All the books and "Sunfish" experience says turn into the wind, but as you do…the crew starts scrambling for the high side yelling comments about life, seamanship, and your parents martial state at the time of your birth. Been there, done that! What has happen can be explained with an excruciatingly painful class in vector analysis, but… The centerline of the boat is at 20 degrees; the top of water is horizontal (hopefully), so the rudder is at 20 degrees to the top of the water. You move the tiller (probably with a with a wee bit of anxiety) to turn the boat into the wind. This turns the rudder, which up until that moment was experiencing a nice equal flow of water on both sides. Now, the flow on one side slows down and the flow on the other has to speed up. Since we all understand (yeah, right!) how sails and wind work, we have something like "lift" on the rudder. This "Lift" works to turn the boat, but since it is at a 20-degree angle to the top of the water it also works to lift the bow and change the line of the boat. This refigures you righting harm (did you know you had one?) and the boat heels over a tad more. Okay, depending on the anxiety of effort on the tiller one may experience a warning of an eminent underwear change. My Hunter 22, "MoonDancer," has proven to be a typically 1980ish Hunter, in that it lists a bit to starboard and heels with the lightest winds. Having said so, she has many times forgiven my miscalculations in seamanship and delivered me home safe and…dry. As for those days with the occasionally gusty moment and the "Comfort Factor" of yourself or those onboard is two-blocked, try un-cleating the main sheet and adjusting as the wind blows. If the "occasionally gusty moment" is more than occasional, then reefing the sails is definitely in order. These solutions may not be the most efficient (as in heart thumping) styles of sailing, but it allows your crew to unclench the gunwales and let blood back into their white knuckles. This does much for a happy day…
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Tom Hultberg
Let out the Main Sheet
I have always found it best to de-power the main sail in gusty and high wind conditions. I have sailed Hob16, 18 and 22 foot day sailers and now a Hunter26. They all react the same way in those conditions. It is best to always be "reading" the water and anticipate what you are moving into and let the sheet out a bit b4 the puff hits you, always remenbering that it will hit the top of your sail first. This way, your boat stays pretty much on the same degree of heel and your passengers aren't tossed about by a abrupt tiller movement.
I have always found it best to de-power the main sail in gusty and high wind conditions. I have sailed Hob16, 18 and 22 foot day sailers and now a Hunter26. They all react the same way in those conditions. It is best to always be "reading" the water and anticipate what you are moving into and let the sheet out a bit b4 the puff hits you, always remenbering that it will hit the top of your sail first. This way, your boat stays pretty much on the same degree of heel and your passengers aren't tossed about by a abrupt tiller movement.
How new are your sails?
I have a similar problem with my H23 and after two days of testing on the water (including watching other H23's) I have come to the conclusion that my sails are blown out. I think they are the original sails that came with the boat 12 years ago. Despite tensioning the outhaul, cunninghman and backstay till they scream in agony, I still can't flatten the main enough to prevent excessive heel. Even with a reef in the main it is still a chore to keep from rounding up. I am about to borrow some newer sails for a day and see what happens. Peter S/V Raven
I have a similar problem with my H23 and after two days of testing on the water (including watching other H23's) I have come to the conclusion that my sails are blown out. I think they are the original sails that came with the boat 12 years ago. Despite tensioning the outhaul, cunninghman and backstay till they scream in agony, I still can't flatten the main enough to prevent excessive heel. Even with a reef in the main it is still a chore to keep from rounding up. I am about to borrow some newer sails for a day and see what happens. Peter S/V Raven
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Bill Coughlin
Heading up
While easing your mainsheets help you de-power also make sure you let off any tension on your boom vang so the boom can lift spilling so more air. Bill Coughlin Hunter 25
While easing your mainsheets help you de-power also make sure you let off any tension on your boom vang so the boom can lift spilling so more air. Bill Coughlin Hunter 25
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MIke B
depowering
With our 1989 h23 I was amazed at first when I realized the difference it made when we really tightened the out haul and, moved main sheet traveler, these two things alone made a world of difference, also on very gusty days have gotten into habit , when wifey unit is on board , have to keep mainsheet in hand, hope this helps Mike B
With our 1989 h23 I was amazed at first when I realized the difference it made when we really tightened the out haul and, moved main sheet traveler, these two things alone made a world of difference, also on very gusty days have gotten into habit , when wifey unit is on board , have to keep mainsheet in hand, hope this helps Mike B
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Mike Epp
amen............spill air
Amen........depower the main first. Turning abruptly into the wind just plows up water on the lee side and gives your crew the appearance of more heeling and distress. I usually have the mainsheet in hand for quick release.
Amen........depower the main first. Turning abruptly into the wind just plows up water on the lee side and gives your crew the appearance of more heeling and distress. I usually have the mainsheet in hand for quick release.
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Gary Guisinger
Thanx to all of you for the information. By the way Capt. M. my crew says it will now cancel their order for some new underwear!! Nicley written!! One more question if I might. Mike B. in his response describes moving the main sheet traveler - I assume you mean moving the stop blocks out to let the traveler move farther toward the side of the boat. gary guisinger
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MIke B
heading uup
Hi again , in light air, we move our mainsheet travelor car toward the direction that the wind is oming from, and when it is gusty we move it in the opposite direction, I am not now or have i ever been a realy technical person , so I, read and try to emplement what I have read , I think this is what I do, it is all about trail and error, do not be afraid to see what works best for you on your boat, When we began this journey I /we were put off when asking a simple question to get a reply that was so far beyond our understanding that the answer was of no use, so if this does not make sense, let me know here or by email and I would be happy to try to explain whatever it is I can ,good luck Mike B
Hi again , in light air, we move our mainsheet travelor car toward the direction that the wind is oming from, and when it is gusty we move it in the opposite direction, I am not now or have i ever been a realy technical person , so I, read and try to emplement what I have read , I think this is what I do, it is all about trail and error, do not be afraid to see what works best for you on your boat, When we began this journey I /we were put off when asking a simple question to get a reply that was so far beyond our understanding that the answer was of no use, so if this does not make sense, let me know here or by email and I would be happy to try to explain whatever it is I can ,good luck Mike B
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Gregg Brock
Heavy air
I've had my 1983 h22 for about 5 years now. Since the weather permits year round sailing here, I've been able to spend alot of time tweeking the sails for performance. The h22 is a great light air boat and performs better than most. The tradeoff is in heavy air dynamics. I've had to power down the main and use a smaller jib ( 80% ) in wind 20 knots and above. If you have a limited sail inventory on board, reef the main and move the traveler cars out to the ends of the tract. I replaced the main sail and have found it does help with performance. You'll have to practice heavy air tactics to find the right sail combination that makes you comfortable. My rule for sail combinations is: 1-8 knots full main and big jib ( 110%), 8-15 knots full main and 80% jib or reefed main and full jib (110%), 16-25 knots reefed main and 80% jib, 26-35 knots reefed main only, bare poles after that. The h22 isn't very forgiving in heavy air so have an extra hand available for depowering the main. You have to gauge the puffs and release the main as the heel increases. I usually start releasing the main at 20 degrees of heel and that prevents a white knuckle ride for your passengers. If you keep rounding up, reduce sail. To get your blocks in good position to augment performance and control, you can move them fore or aft depending on the conditions. I have three separate sets of blocks on the toe rail for the sail combinations I use on my h22. It just depends on the conditions you experience on the water. When racing, I use my crew as ballast and put them on the high side rails in heavy air and low side rails in light air. The h22 is sensitive to weight shifts so you have to have an informed crew to keep the weight and center of gravity where you want it.The starboard chine It's just a matter of practice. We do quite well in our class and those Catalina 22's usually spend more time looking at our transome than we do at theirs. You have a very good boat but it's going to take a while for you to get to know all the quirks that makes it special to you. Let me know how it goes, Gregg Brock " Ocracoke " (h22)
I've had my 1983 h22 for about 5 years now. Since the weather permits year round sailing here, I've been able to spend alot of time tweeking the sails for performance. The h22 is a great light air boat and performs better than most. The tradeoff is in heavy air dynamics. I've had to power down the main and use a smaller jib ( 80% ) in wind 20 knots and above. If you have a limited sail inventory on board, reef the main and move the traveler cars out to the ends of the tract. I replaced the main sail and have found it does help with performance. You'll have to practice heavy air tactics to find the right sail combination that makes you comfortable. My rule for sail combinations is: 1-8 knots full main and big jib ( 110%), 8-15 knots full main and 80% jib or reefed main and full jib (110%), 16-25 knots reefed main and 80% jib, 26-35 knots reefed main only, bare poles after that. The h22 isn't very forgiving in heavy air so have an extra hand available for depowering the main. You have to gauge the puffs and release the main as the heel increases. I usually start releasing the main at 20 degrees of heel and that prevents a white knuckle ride for your passengers. If you keep rounding up, reduce sail. To get your blocks in good position to augment performance and control, you can move them fore or aft depending on the conditions. I have three separate sets of blocks on the toe rail for the sail combinations I use on my h22. It just depends on the conditions you experience on the water. When racing, I use my crew as ballast and put them on the high side rails in heavy air and low side rails in light air. The h22 is sensitive to weight shifts so you have to have an informed crew to keep the weight and center of gravity where you want it.The starboard chine It's just a matter of practice. We do quite well in our class and those Catalina 22's usually spend more time looking at our transome than we do at theirs. You have a very good boat but it's going to take a while for you to get to know all the quirks that makes it special to you. Let me know how it goes, Gregg Brock " Ocracoke " (h22)
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David Foster
New sails helped my h27 a lot
I'm not saying you should buy new sails to correct heeling - depowering the main by moving the traveler or other controls, and being ready (or anticipating) to move the mainsheet are the right first solutions. Reefing comes next (we seldom lose any speed when winds are high enough to reef, and the whole experience is more fun). However, when we replaced our blown out main with a modern half full batten main (from Doyle), our heeling was dramatically reduced, and the reduced heeling force was converted to drive - I'd estimate 1-1.5 knots faster in winds that cause a 15 degree heel.
I'm not saying you should buy new sails to correct heeling - depowering the main by moving the traveler or other controls, and being ready (or anticipating) to move the mainsheet are the right first solutions. Reefing comes next (we seldom lose any speed when winds are high enough to reef, and the whole experience is more fun). However, when we replaced our blown out main with a modern half full batten main (from Doyle), our heeling was dramatically reduced, and the reduced heeling force was converted to drive - I'd estimate 1-1.5 knots faster in winds that cause a 15 degree heel.
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