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- Thread starter jorgefife
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Replace hose, but the tank only if it's a bag
I've never seen or heard of a BLADDER tank from Wilcox-Crittenden..only rigid plastic tanks, which were nearly twice as thick as any other tanks, and also made from cross linked poly, which is rated for fuel holding, instead of linear poly rated for water and waste holding. The 20 yr old W-C tank on my own boat was the only part of the sanitation system I didn't replace.
So it's unlikely that any bladder on the tank was supplied by W-C (which, btw. was bought a by Thetford Norcold a few years ago...T-N discontinued the entire W-C line at the end of 2008). But no matter who supplied it, I'd replace it. Badders are ok for fuel or water, but a very bad choice for waste holding....plus the average lifespan of ANY bladder is only about 15 years.
Your best source for a new tank is Ronco Plastics Ronco Plastics They make top quality tanks for a very reasonable price and have more than 400 shapes and sizes, over 100 of which are non-rectangular...and they install fittings in the sizes and locations specifiedy by the customer when they make the tank. The online store at this site is now a dealer for Ronco Plastics http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail.htm?group=1250, and they discount Ronco's already low prices...so find the tank that fits your space in the Ronco catalog, then call Dave to order it. You'll also want to get your hose and fittings from sbo.com In fact, you should just bookmark the plumbing page sbo.com plumbing
Before you start this job, you might consider checking out the link in my signature too.
I dunno where you got the idea that plastic tanks sweat...they don't. Any "brown sweat" you may have thought you saw on one was most likely condensation attached to the outside of it on dirt.
I've never seen or heard of a BLADDER tank from Wilcox-Crittenden..only rigid plastic tanks, which were nearly twice as thick as any other tanks, and also made from cross linked poly, which is rated for fuel holding, instead of linear poly rated for water and waste holding. The 20 yr old W-C tank on my own boat was the only part of the sanitation system I didn't replace.
So it's unlikely that any bladder on the tank was supplied by W-C (which, btw. was bought a by Thetford Norcold a few years ago...T-N discontinued the entire W-C line at the end of 2008). But no matter who supplied it, I'd replace it. Badders are ok for fuel or water, but a very bad choice for waste holding....plus the average lifespan of ANY bladder is only about 15 years.
Your best source for a new tank is Ronco Plastics Ronco Plastics They make top quality tanks for a very reasonable price and have more than 400 shapes and sizes, over 100 of which are non-rectangular...and they install fittings in the sizes and locations specifiedy by the customer when they make the tank. The online store at this site is now a dealer for Ronco Plastics http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail.htm?group=1250, and they discount Ronco's already low prices...so find the tank that fits your space in the Ronco catalog, then call Dave to order it. You'll also want to get your hose and fittings from sbo.com In fact, you should just bookmark the plumbing page sbo.com plumbing
Before you start this job, you might consider checking out the link in my signature too.
OK- Here we go. I made the mistake of referring to Jorge's hanging holding BAG with the word "tank. My bad. However, you apparently are unfamiliar with what Hunter supplied as blackwater systems in the late 70's, early 80's. There was a black rubbery bag that hung on the back side of the head bulkhead. It said Wilcox Crittenden on it. It was original, old, and the one in my boat was covered in brown "sweat". I won't say they manufactured it, but they sure sold it. The rest of the system consisted of a hose coming out the bottom of the bag to a hand diaphram pump mounted on the bulkhead next to the bag. The outlet hose from that pump went aft to a valved through hull to exit just before the transom. I know plastic tanks don't "sweat". If Ronco had made a tank that even came close to fitting in the space where I needed to place it I certainly would have bought it. And yes, even the Vetus bag I used for a few years ended up permeated. I just could not circulate enough oxygen through it.
From what I can devine the Hunter 33 was designed before there was a requirement for a holding tank. It appears the earliest heads pumped directly to that great salty holding tank outside the boat. It appears the bulkhead mounted holding bag was the easiest way out Hunter could find.
My objective for installing my holding tank was for it to be a very short run from the toilet, to be as low in the boat as possible, and take up no otherwise usable space. The only space that fit that bill was the area under the floor in the starboard cockpit locker, just behind the head. This space had been occupied by the fresh drinking water pump and engine cooling water through hull. I relocated both of those. As there was no commercially available tank to fit into the available space I had a plastic tank welded up. It was very costly and after about 4 seasons I'm still very happy with the way I did it.
Three pictures show the welded-up tank from either end showing the wedge shap that conforms to the hull. The other picture is from directly above showing the tank in place with the re fabricated floor. Just ahead you can see some of the bulkhead which now has a lot of the utility items mounted on it. Fuel filter, drinking water filter, drinking water pump, seawater strainer, mascerator pump, and a few things I can't remember.
My objective for installing my holding tank was for it to be a very short run from the toilet, to be as low in the boat as possible, and take up no otherwise usable space. The only space that fit that bill was the area under the floor in the starboard cockpit locker, just behind the head. This space had been occupied by the fresh drinking water pump and engine cooling water through hull. I relocated both of those. As there was no commercially available tank to fit into the available space I had a plastic tank welded up. It was very costly and after about 4 seasons I'm still very happy with the way I did it.
Three pictures show the welded-up tank from either end showing the wedge shap that conforms to the hull. The other picture is from directly above showing the tank in place with the re fabricated floor. Just ahead you can see some of the bulkhead which now has a lot of the utility items mounted on it. Fuel filter, drinking water filter, drinking water pump, seawater strainer, mascerator pump, and a few things I can't remember.
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Dear Sam,
I just took a look at the holding bag in my boat: it says Wilcox-Critendon, 15 gallon flexible tank, Model (I think) 6020
It does hang like a bladder with hooks from the bulkhead, insiide the starboard lazarette
And it is an ugly brown color, which has seen better days
I will remove it, clean it and see what happens
Please send the photos you mentioned
Thank for the help, Peggy andd Sam and Steve and all you good people out there
The cause is a just cause, helping dummies still learning
Sam,
Just saw your pictures of the holding tank, thank you
Would love to see pictures, inside and out, of your boat; I would like to compare and see how I can improve mine
I am learning with every comment dished out!
Jorge
Peggy; did you catch that? WILCOX CRITTENEON. Right on the bag.
Jorge;
That bag started it's life BLACK. It's brown coloring is derived from the contents which have permeated through. Cleaning it will do you no good whatsoever. I'm afraid this is one place where it would be best to bite the bullet and get a new bag from Vetus.
Jorge;
That bag started it's life BLACK. It's brown coloring is derived from the contents which have permeated through. Cleaning it will do you no good whatsoever. I'm afraid this is one place where it would be best to bite the bullet and get a new bag from Vetus.
I have removed a Vetus black bag from the port V berth and replaced it with a Ronco 15 gal tank (B-541) which fit perfectly. The head does not smell anymore. I have also removed an extra fresh water Vetus bag from another hatch. The water bag is for sale if Jorge is interested in using it for a waste tank.
Jorge;
I have worked on EVERY system on the boat. People might not understand or agree with some of the things I have done but it all works for me. I have pictures of most of it and any pictures I don't have I can certainly take if you have patience. My Hunter 33 is currently spending this veryu cold winter in the yard next to my house. I'm there every weekend and can get pictures then. Just let me know what you need.
I have worked on EVERY system on the boat. People might not understand or agree with some of the things I have done but it all works for me. I have pictures of most of it and any pictures I don't have I can certainly take if you have patience. My Hunter 33 is currently spending this veryu cold winter in the yard next to my house. I'm there every weekend and can get pictures then. Just let me know what you need.
Well for starters, the interior of your boat
I have removed the carpets on both sides, am now putting furring strips, and aromatic cedar panels ( I got a lot of aromatic cedar panels, 4" x 8 ft) and I think they will look great inside
But I would like to see the interior, head, galley, navigation room, etc from anyone out there that has a similar boat
Not knowing anything about boats, I have done a great job so far, in all humility
But I would like to see how I can improve further
Thank you all
Jorge Fife
I have removed the carpets on both sides, am now putting furring strips, and aromatic cedar panels ( I got a lot of aromatic cedar panels, 4" x 8 ft) and I think they will look great inside
But I would like to see the interior, head, galley, navigation room, etc from anyone out there that has a similar boat
Not knowing anything about boats, I have done a great job so far, in all humility
But I would like to see how I can improve further
Thank you all
Jorge Fife
Dear Ed, Sam, Steve & Co.
Thought I would report "head" business:
Yesterday I conducted the test as per Ed: valve horizontal, flush bowl out; it was clogged by the hose, so what I did was blow some air using a small compressor: whatever creature was residing in the hose, is no longer there. It worked just fine.
However, opening the gate valve, not much water came in, because the fitting is green; that needs to be replaced (can it be done with boat in the water, is it below the water line? I need to check)
The hoses are not in good shape, so I need to replace them
I will copy exactly what it needs
Thank you all: it was real easy! I feel like I know what I am doing now, and it appears the toilet is in good shape: should I put some dtergent with some water to lubricate whatever is inside?
Jorge
Thought I would report "head" business:
Yesterday I conducted the test as per Ed: valve horizontal, flush bowl out; it was clogged by the hose, so what I did was blow some air using a small compressor: whatever creature was residing in the hose, is no longer there. It worked just fine.
However, opening the gate valve, not much water came in, because the fitting is green; that needs to be replaced (can it be done with boat in the water, is it below the water line? I need to check)
The hoses are not in good shape, so I need to replace them
I will copy exactly what it needs
Thank you all: it was real easy! I feel like I know what I am doing now, and it appears the toilet is in good shape: should I put some dtergent with some water to lubricate whatever is inside?
Jorge
Can Peggy, our Head Mistress help?
There used to be some really good information about Head maintenance around here somewhere. I looked on the "Head Mistress" forum to no avail. Maybe Peggy will see this and recommend lubricants.
The gate valve is definitely below the waterline, think about it. You could possibly remove it and quickly plug the thru-hull. You would still let in quite a lot of water. Worse you risk breaking off the thru-hull trying to get that valve off.
The other issue is that Hunter used 1/2" thru-hulls. There are no 1/2" seacocks. To put a seacock on there you need to install a 3/4" thru-hull. Those get installed from the outside. Another story for another time.
Meanwhile you can use a good bronze ball-valve. Usually you can remove the gate valve and install a bronze 90 degree elbow. To the elbow attach the ball-valve. To the ball-valve the inlet hose to the head. On my boat I have a screen filter between the seacock and the hose. Here are some links: http://www.valvestore.com/products.asp?dept=1317
http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=115503F
There used to be some really good information about Head maintenance around here somewhere. I looked on the "Head Mistress" forum to no avail. Maybe Peggy will see this and recommend lubricants.
The gate valve is definitely below the waterline, think about it. You could possibly remove it and quickly plug the thru-hull. You would still let in quite a lot of water. Worse you risk breaking off the thru-hull trying to get that valve off.
The other issue is that Hunter used 1/2" thru-hulls. There are no 1/2" seacocks. To put a seacock on there you need to install a 3/4" thru-hull. Those get installed from the outside. Another story for another time.
Meanwhile you can use a good bronze ball-valve. Usually you can remove the gate valve and install a bronze 90 degree elbow. To the elbow attach the ball-valve. To the ball-valve the inlet hose to the head. On my boat I have a screen filter between the seacock and the hose. Here are some links: http://www.valvestore.com/products.asp?dept=1317
http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=115503F
Back when I had an H33, I had a steel tank made up which fitted tightly into the starboard cockpit locker. That was great for about 5 years until it started leaking. Go with the poly and getting rid of the bag and old hoses was one of the BEST things I ever did on that boat.
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