Our boat is a 35.5 with a small 120% genoa. I recently had an interesting discussion with the owner of a nice X-34. He was mentionning that when going directly downwind in 20 to 30 knot true, using one sail only, he prefer to use his main sail only not to overload the front section of the boat. I always was under the impression that flying one sail only going downwind, using the genoa was the way to go and was safer (accidental jibe). We both don't have a spinnaker. Are these two options OK or one should be the prefered method of sailind downwind and why?
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Genny Only
I find, if I have to use only one sail, that using just the gennoa downwind is safer and more controlable. Having the sail area forward helps keep the bow heading in the right direction. In large swells, using just the main can cause the boat to jibe accidentally, endangering everyone aboard especially in higher winds. My 2 cents...
I find, if I have to use only one sail, that using just the gennoa downwind is safer and more controlable. Having the sail area forward helps keep the bow heading in the right direction. In large swells, using just the main can cause the boat to jibe accidentally, endangering everyone aboard especially in higher winds. My 2 cents...
Wind aft of the Beam
Claude, I will agree with Dboucher here. Indeed, running use the SMALLEST headsail you can that will bring you close to hull-speed (square of LWL x 1.34 = close hull speed)this is the safest, whence racing all bets are off and dismatings occur not too rarely, for an extra tenth of a knot. I like a 100% Yankee, gives visibility and unless you need a chute it will work fine running. The main boom should be under control with a preventer, rigged before you leave your slip, and in use when you are on a beam-reach; always without thinking twice, like reefing. Terry
Claude, I will agree with Dboucher here. Indeed, running use the SMALLEST headsail you can that will bring you close to hull-speed (square of LWL x 1.34 = close hull speed)this is the safest, whence racing all bets are off and dismatings occur not too rarely, for an extra tenth of a knot. I like a 100% Yankee, gives visibility and unless you need a chute it will work fine running. The main boom should be under control with a preventer, rigged before you leave your slip, and in use when you are on a beam-reach; always without thinking twice, like reefing. Terry
Balance
First off, I don't sail DDW ... ever. It's slow and uncomfortable. I always sail with a balanced sail plan. If I need to change course I want to be able to. With no main, it is very difficult to turn the boat toward the wind, much less sail upwind. With no jib, the boat might have too much weather helm. A deep reef in the main and a small headsail keeps the centre of effort forward for good control and allows the boat to sail on any heading. A small jib and reefed main also lowers the centre of effort so the boat heels less. Think about running DDW with a 120% Genoa and no main. Now try to turn the boat back to pick up a Crew Overboard. Try heaving to with just a 120 up. Why sail a boat out of control on purpose?
First off, I don't sail DDW ... ever. It's slow and uncomfortable. I always sail with a balanced sail plan. If I need to change course I want to be able to. With no main, it is very difficult to turn the boat toward the wind, much less sail upwind. With no jib, the boat might have too much weather helm. A deep reef in the main and a small headsail keeps the centre of effort forward for good control and allows the boat to sail on any heading. A small jib and reefed main also lowers the centre of effort so the boat heels less. Think about running DDW with a 120% Genoa and no main. Now try to turn the boat back to pick up a Crew Overboard. Try heaving to with just a 120 up. Why sail a boat out of control on purpose?
Safety sailing?
Moody has a good point, course you can pretty much swim to land anywhere round Victoria Island, if the water weren't so cold. Love flyin' thru Active pass with the tidal stream. It is true that you have more control with a bit of main up, and it should be locked & loaded at all times; halyard attached to head cringle, bent down around a winch, cleat, then tensioned up with the excess slack halyard stacked and ready, like a climbing line. I have done many 'practice' man-overboard drills, and one for real in forty years. I can attest it is never easy, on a sunny day it is easy to lose sight of the dummy, pick up is tough. Drop your infaltable in the water raft it up the the mother ship, get your MOB into the infatable, then up to the deck. Did hundreds of deliveries to many countrys, always tell the crew, if you fall overboard you're dead. Usually true, and best to bring it home in a grave serious way. Stay clipped in, don't ever pee nor up-chuck over the side as these are the ways that it happens. To the point, drop all sails and motor up to leeward or the person-overboard.
Moody has a good point, course you can pretty much swim to land anywhere round Victoria Island, if the water weren't so cold. Love flyin' thru Active pass with the tidal stream. It is true that you have more control with a bit of main up, and it should be locked & loaded at all times; halyard attached to head cringle, bent down around a winch, cleat, then tensioned up with the excess slack halyard stacked and ready, like a climbing line. I have done many 'practice' man-overboard drills, and one for real in forty years. I can attest it is never easy, on a sunny day it is easy to lose sight of the dummy, pick up is tough. Drop your infaltable in the water raft it up the the mother ship, get your MOB into the infatable, then up to the deck. Did hundreds of deliveries to many countrys, always tell the crew, if you fall overboard you're dead. Usually true, and best to bring it home in a grave serious way. Stay clipped in, don't ever pee nor up-chuck over the side as these are the ways that it happens. To the point, drop all sails and motor up to leeward or the person-overboard.
I Agree..Genny Only!
from personal experience here on Lake Michigan...Example #1: Sailing from Fish Creek, WI on a SW course, wind out of the NE..unrolled the genny and kept the Main under wraps. an absolutely WON-DER-FUL sail all the way down the coast, through the ship channel and to the bridges. Turned up wind at the bridge, started the iron genny, motored through the channel untill under the 2nd bridge and into open water, turned South, unfurled the genny again, and sailed all the way to Algoma..about 50 miles...hated for it to end! Example #2: sailing South from Pt. Washington to Racine (again, about 50 miles) winds out of NE about 15-18 kts, seas 5-7 feet..sailing under Main alone. Scariest thing I;'ve ever done! Boat kept wanting to round up, autopilot couldn't hold the course, had to hand-steer all the way...had I not had lazy jacks on the main, I would've tried to drop the main and then let out the genny. My wife was scared to death. We WERE under control, but it was not pleasant. So, my vote...downwind under a Genny!
from personal experience here on Lake Michigan...Example #1: Sailing from Fish Creek, WI on a SW course, wind out of the NE..unrolled the genny and kept the Main under wraps. an absolutely WON-DER-FUL sail all the way down the coast, through the ship channel and to the bridges. Turned up wind at the bridge, started the iron genny, motored through the channel untill under the 2nd bridge and into open water, turned South, unfurled the genny again, and sailed all the way to Algoma..about 50 miles...hated for it to end! Example #2: sailing South from Pt. Washington to Racine (again, about 50 miles) winds out of NE about 15-18 kts, seas 5-7 feet..sailing under Main alone. Scariest thing I;'ve ever done! Boat kept wanting to round up, autopilot couldn't hold the course, had to hand-steer all the way...had I not had lazy jacks on the main, I would've tried to drop the main and then let out the genny. My wife was scared to death. We WERE under control, but it was not pleasant. So, my vote...downwind under a Genny!
Re: Safety Sailing
Thanks, I was starting to think I was a timid old fart
The polars for my boat (Cat 30) show that in heavy air the best downwind speed is 165 True, about 157 Apparent. Keeping the apparent wind at around 160 gives me 20 degrees before I'm DDW. With a balanced sail plan Auto can drive just fine, I don't worry about accidental jibes, and I get there faster. A double reefed main and enough genoa to balance the helm is a nice ride ... in fact in 20 true I only have 12-13 on deck, I'll probably put the kite up.
Thanks, I was starting to think I was a timid old fart
The polars for my boat (Cat 30) show that in heavy air the best downwind speed is 165 True, about 157 Apparent. Keeping the apparent wind at around 160 gives me 20 degrees before I'm DDW. With a balanced sail plan Auto can drive just fine, I don't worry about accidental jibes, and I get there faster. A double reefed main and enough genoa to balance the helm is a nice ride ... in fact in 20 true I only have 12-13 on deck, I'll probably put the kite up.Don, is that you
I assume you are the Don Boucher who used to own "Ambrosia II"? Are you back into sailing? Did you move to Harpswell? We still have the Pearson although she is now named "Athais". She has been as far as Camden and has won a few races since we bought her. We continue to maintain her like she was new and love spending time on her. You can see some of the improvements we have made on the P28 forum at Yahoo. Tim R.
I assume you are the Don Boucher who used to own "Ambrosia II"? Are you back into sailing? Did you move to Harpswell? We still have the Pearson although she is now named "Athais". She has been as far as Camden and has won a few races since we bought her. We continue to maintain her like she was new and love spending time on her. You can see some of the improvements we have made on the P28 forum at Yahoo. Tim R.
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