As the proud new owner of a 1980 H33 I am curious if any one has any recommendations for a replacement head. I want to go with a manual that is higher and longer than the original head. The knees are not what they used to be for that low of a potty, along with the fact the bowl is a little small for me, ( a gross understatement). I'm not talking about reading a novel while taking care of business, but something that more resembles a household sized head without alot of modification. Ken M. s/v Loon-a-Sea
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I replacecd the Jabsco with the raritan Cricket. Bought the Hi-boy. They work great. Bryce S/V Spellbinder H410
I replacecd the Jabsco with the raritan Cricket. Bought the Hi-boy. They work great. Bryce S/V Spellbinder H410
I second Bryce's recommendation...
However, all manual toilets except "compact" models are available with the larger "highboy" bowl. You'll prob'ly have to order it, 'cuz most of the ones in the stores have the small "standard" bowl. Check out the Cricket on the Raritan website at http://www.raritaneng.com
However, all manual toilets except "compact" models are available with the larger "highboy" bowl. You'll prob'ly have to order it, 'cuz most of the ones in the stores have the small "standard" bowl. Check out the Cricket on the Raritan website at http://www.raritaneng.com
Bryce and Peggy, Thanks for the help. I went to the Raritan website and got the spec sheet. One question, what is a dry flush extension kit and do I need it? Ken
Flush with experience!!
Do not put the Cricket into the Hunter 33! The pump will be below the waterline and will not flush as advertised. The bowl will fill more with each stroke of the pump rather than emptying as claimed in the literature. That extension handle connects to the dry flush lever which is way down at the base. You would have to bend over with your face in the bowl to flip it without the extension. Even with the extension it's no bundle of joy!! Do yourself a favor. Go for the normal style PH11 with the full size bowl. You will have to go through a bit of work to fit it in but it's well worth it. Nice and comfy. Good for several magazine articles. To install it in the H 33 you'll have to make up a mounting plate to go between the toilet base and the floor of the head. (You would have to do this for the cricket also.) You'll also want to set the bowl inlet fitting through the bulkhead so the bowl sits flush (no pun intended here) to the bulkhead, providing as much room as possible in front of the bowl to allow the the vanity door to open as far as possible. I have pictures of the mounting plate if you're interested. samlust@monmouth.com
Do not put the Cricket into the Hunter 33! The pump will be below the waterline and will not flush as advertised. The bowl will fill more with each stroke of the pump rather than emptying as claimed in the literature. That extension handle connects to the dry flush lever which is way down at the base. You would have to bend over with your face in the bowl to flip it without the extension. Even with the extension it's no bundle of joy!! Do yourself a favor. Go for the normal style PH11 with the full size bowl. You will have to go through a bit of work to fit it in but it's well worth it. Nice and comfy. Good for several magazine articles. To install it in the H 33 you'll have to make up a mounting plate to go between the toilet base and the floor of the head. (You would have to do this for the cricket also.) You'll also want to set the bowl inlet fitting through the bulkhead so the bowl sits flush (no pun intended here) to the bulkhead, providing as much room as possible in front of the bowl to allow the the vanity door to open as far as possible. I have pictures of the mounting plate if you're interested. samlust@monmouth.com
Cricket dry flush extension kit
Because the Cricket pump is under the bowl, and because the dry/flush mechanism obviously has to be on the pump, it can be a pain to reach, especially for tall people. After Raritan got enough complaints that "my wife has had it with washing her hair the toilet bowl" from Cricket buyers in the first few months it was on the market, they added an optional extender that allows the dry/flush lever to operated from a sitting or standing position. Whether you need it or not depends on how the toilet will be positioned in your boat. You can always order it later if you need it. Btw...if your current toilet backs right up against a bulkhead, you'll have move any toilet with a "highboy" bowl forward to make it fit...'cuz the discharge is in the center of both size bowls...the larger bowl will extend further in both the front and the back. If your toilet is on a "step" and that pushes it so far forward than overhangs the step, that can be overcome very easily. Give me a shout if you need to know how to do it.
Because the Cricket pump is under the bowl, and because the dry/flush mechanism obviously has to be on the pump, it can be a pain to reach, especially for tall people. After Raritan got enough complaints that "my wife has had it with washing her hair the toilet bowl" from Cricket buyers in the first few months it was on the market, they added an optional extender that allows the dry/flush lever to operated from a sitting or standing position. Whether you need it or not depends on how the toilet will be positioned in your boat. You can always order it later if you need it. Btw...if your current toilet backs right up against a bulkhead, you'll have move any toilet with a "highboy" bowl forward to make it fit...'cuz the discharge is in the center of both size bowls...the larger bowl will extend further in both the front and the back. If your toilet is on a "step" and that pushes it so far forward than overhangs the step, that can be overcome very easily. Give me a shout if you need to know how to do it.
head
Both crickets on my 410 are below the water line and we have none of the problems Sam mentioned. It will need a vented loop in order to work properly. The cricket comes with a short hose between the two connectors where the vented needs to go. I had to put an adapter on one side, as my vented loop hosees were smaller than the connector on the head. Bryce S/V Spellbinder H410
Both crickets on my 410 are below the water line and we have none of the problems Sam mentioned. It will need a vented loop in order to work properly. The cricket comes with a short hose between the two connectors where the vented needs to go. I had to put an adapter on one side, as my vented loop hosees were smaller than the connector on the head. Bryce S/V Spellbinder H410
Bryce 1, Sam 0.5.
I installed the Cricket on my H37C(below the waterline). WithOUT the vented loop(in the input) it still works well. You pump in a little water and then turn to DRY. Use the head and either pump out or turn to WET to add some water and then pump out. With the vented loop the bowl won't fill up if you leave it on WET. Be careful of the fit however. The handle on the Cricket has an extension and angles out from the bowl. In using one of the existing holes and keeping the bowl centered the handle actually touches the bulkhead when used. I will use an earlier Peggy suggestion and mount it on a teak board, off center and higher. This will cover up the unused holes also. The Jabsco had four where the Cricket only has three. The beauty of the Cricket is the simple pump design works well and uses very little water. And the price.
I installed the Cricket on my H37C(below the waterline). WithOUT the vented loop(in the input) it still works well. You pump in a little water and then turn to DRY. Use the head and either pump out or turn to WET to add some water and then pump out. With the vented loop the bowl won't fill up if you leave it on WET. Be careful of the fit however. The handle on the Cricket has an extension and angles out from the bowl. In using one of the existing holes and keeping the bowl centered the handle actually touches the bulkhead when used. I will use an earlier Peggy suggestion and mount it on a teak board, off center and higher. This will cover up the unused holes also. The Jabsco had four where the Cricket only has three. The beauty of the Cricket is the simple pump design works well and uses very little water. And the price.
When all else fails, read the directions, Sam...
If you had when you'd installed the Cricket, you'd know that the Cricket WILL flush "as advertised" on ANY boat, whether the pump is below the waterline or not--IF it's installed correctly. You must not even have bothered to take the manual out of its plastic envelope--because it's right on the very first page and in bold print (you can see for yourself on the Raritan website at http://www.raritaneng.com): "The Cricket marine toilet can be installed above or below the waterline. However, for mounting at or below the waterline, vented loops must be installed as shown in Fig #2 to prevent back-siphoning." "Fig #2" clearly illustrates a vented loop in the intake line, installed between the pump and the bowl. The same is true for the PH II...from the manual (in bold print): "Warning: below waterline installations require vented loops..." If didn't install one , you didn't read the directions for installing the PH II either. You should have...because the PH II installed below the waterline (and all other toilets that have a pump beside the bowl instead of under it as the Cricket does) is even MORE vulnerable to overflowing than the Cricket, because a bowl sitting beside the pump is lower in the boat than a bowl sitting on top of the pump...more of the bowl is below the waterline, and the pump won't prevent the water from rising in it if the dry/flush valve is ever left on flush, or the valve should fail. The above doesn't only apply to the Cricket or the PH II...it applies to ALL toilets: if ANY part of it is below the waterline, a vented loop at least a foot above the waterline MUST be installed in the intake between the pump and the bowl. People are fallible...mechanical parts can fail. Relying on fallible human nature to never forget to leave the valve set to dry, or on a mechanical part than can and does (more often on some make/models than others) fail to protect your boat just about guarantees that the day WILL come when you'll get a call from your marina that it's sunk in its slip. If you don't close all the seacocks each time you leave the boat either, you're at an ever greater risk...open seacocks--especially toilet intake seacock--are the most the common cause for boats sinking in their slips while the owner is away. Ed, you'll be very happy with the Cricket if you'll just follow the installation directions.
If you had when you'd installed the Cricket, you'd know that the Cricket WILL flush "as advertised" on ANY boat, whether the pump is below the waterline or not--IF it's installed correctly. You must not even have bothered to take the manual out of its plastic envelope--because it's right on the very first page and in bold print (you can see for yourself on the Raritan website at http://www.raritaneng.com): "The Cricket marine toilet can be installed above or below the waterline. However, for mounting at or below the waterline, vented loops must be installed as shown in Fig #2 to prevent back-siphoning." "Fig #2" clearly illustrates a vented loop in the intake line, installed between the pump and the bowl. The same is true for the PH II...from the manual (in bold print): "Warning: below waterline installations require vented loops..." If didn't install one , you didn't read the directions for installing the PH II either. You should have...because the PH II installed below the waterline (and all other toilets that have a pump beside the bowl instead of under it as the Cricket does) is even MORE vulnerable to overflowing than the Cricket, because a bowl sitting beside the pump is lower in the boat than a bowl sitting on top of the pump...more of the bowl is below the waterline, and the pump won't prevent the water from rising in it if the dry/flush valve is ever left on flush, or the valve should fail. The above doesn't only apply to the Cricket or the PH II...it applies to ALL toilets: if ANY part of it is below the waterline, a vented loop at least a foot above the waterline MUST be installed in the intake between the pump and the bowl. People are fallible...mechanical parts can fail. Relying on fallible human nature to never forget to leave the valve set to dry, or on a mechanical part than can and does (more often on some make/models than others) fail to protect your boat just about guarantees that the day WILL come when you'll get a call from your marina that it's sunk in its slip. If you don't close all the seacocks each time you leave the boat either, you're at an ever greater risk...open seacocks--especially toilet intake seacock--are the most the common cause for boats sinking in their slips while the owner is away. Ed, you'll be very happy with the Cricket if you'll just follow the installation directions.
Rather sail Peggy!
The vented loop and hose is in my basement. Then I carry it back and forth to the boat in the trunk of the car. Then I think, do I want to remove the toilet and the teak panel and install the loop? Or do I want to sail? It must be a Great Lakes thing, we only get so much time on the water. And when you work and only have weekends, well. But I ALWAYS close my seacocks!
The vented loop and hose is in my basement. Then I carry it back and forth to the boat in the trunk of the car. Then I think, do I want to remove the toilet and the teak panel and install the loop? Or do I want to sail? It must be a Great Lakes thing, we only get so much time on the water. And when you work and only have weekends, well. But I ALWAYS close my seacocks!
Excuses, excuses 
But WHY would you think you'd
But why would you think you'd have have to remove the toilet or anything else to install a vented loop in the intake???? It goes between the pump and the bowl. All you have to do is buy 2 sections of 3/4" ID white sanitation hose that are long enough to connect the loop to the pump and the bowl....attach the vented loop to the bulkhead behind the toilet...covering it with a teak box optional--but if you do, make sure it's easily removable so you can inspect the air valve in the loop and clean it if necessary (which is why you don't want to hide behind any panelling). Except for making the cover, it's a 15 minute job! And the cover can be a winter project. If your toilet only flushes into a holding tank, you don't need a vented loop in the head discharge (only between any macerator and the thru-hull)...although I do recommend an arch in the hose high enough to keep any backflow from the tank from getting over it at any angle of heel. That means replacing the discharge hose, which could BE a bit of a job...but, since a little waste in the bowl can't sink your boat, it's up to you whether you want to do it or not. If it's a problem, make it a winter project.
But WHY would you think you'dBut why would you think you'd have have to remove the toilet or anything else to install a vented loop in the intake???? It goes between the pump and the bowl. All you have to do is buy 2 sections of 3/4" ID white sanitation hose that are long enough to connect the loop to the pump and the bowl....attach the vented loop to the bulkhead behind the toilet...covering it with a teak box optional--but if you do, make sure it's easily removable so you can inspect the air valve in the loop and clean it if necessary (which is why you don't want to hide behind any panelling). Except for making the cover, it's a 15 minute job! And the cover can be a winter project. If your toilet only flushes into a holding tank, you don't need a vented loop in the head discharge (only between any macerator and the thru-hull)...although I do recommend an arch in the hose high enough to keep any backflow from the tank from getting over it at any angle of heel. That means replacing the discharge hose, which could BE a bit of a job...but, since a little waste in the bowl can't sink your boat, it's up to you whether you want to do it or not. If it's a problem, make it a winter project.
Hunter 33 anti-siphon
It is as easy as Peggie says....or even easier! Run the hose from the pump up the bulkhead that borders your engine compartment, up near the height of the step in the fiberglass aft headliner and back down to the bowl. You can easily affix this hose to the plywood in the engine bulkhead. At the highest point of the loop, put your anti-siphon valve, or simply put a T in the hose and run another 18 inches of hose straight up from the tee, along the corner of the side and aft bulkheads. The T and hose will be a perfect siphon break.
It is as easy as Peggie says....or even easier! Run the hose from the pump up the bulkhead that borders your engine compartment, up near the height of the step in the fiberglass aft headliner and back down to the bowl. You can easily affix this hose to the plywood in the engine bulkhead. At the highest point of the loop, put your anti-siphon valve, or simply put a T in the hose and run another 18 inches of hose straight up from the tee, along the corner of the side and aft bulkheads. The T and hose will be a perfect siphon break.
Bet for Peggy and Tim.
I'll give either/both of you $1000. and pay your airfare to Cleveland IF you can install a vented-loop in 15 minutes on MY Cricket head. You can't get behind that Cricket and remove the existing hose in 15 minutes. But the real problem is that it is right against a teak panel that hides the output vented-loop. The new input vented-loop has to go under there, somehow in about the same space(picture in link below makes it look too easy). The only reason it is not an all day job is that I left the bungs out of all that teak trim when I installed it last Winter. The boat will be on the cradle on Sept. 19 making it even easier!
I'll give either/both of you $1000. and pay your airfare to Cleveland IF you can install a vented-loop in 15 minutes on MY Cricket head. You can't get behind that Cricket and remove the existing hose in 15 minutes. But the real problem is that it is right against a teak panel that hides the output vented-loop. The new input vented-loop has to go under there, somehow in about the same space(picture in link below makes it look too easy). The only reason it is not an all day job is that I left the bungs out of all that teak trim when I installed it last Winter. The boat will be on the cradle on Sept. 19 making it even easier!
I'll take that bet, Ed!
I looked at your photo...piece o' cake. Round up everyone you know and I'll also throw in a sanitation seminar. You really ought to get a LITTLE more than 15 minutes work for $1,000 plus airfare! How's the weekend after Labor Day for you?)))
I looked at your photo...piece o' cake. Round up everyone you know and I'll also throw in a sanitation seminar. You really ought to get a LITTLE more than 15 minutes work for $1,000 plus airfare! How's the weekend after Labor Day for you?
)))Ed, I defer to Peggie ;-)...
since she will obviously be a better value for the $1000, and since her airfare will be less than mine from Cabo!! Cleeeeeeeeveland, eh? Hmmmm. Seriously, I should say that my brash remarks emanated from the fact that the post was listed as a Hunter 33! (I was pretty sure you had a 37, and it turns out you do). If it were a 33, I would perform the miracle in FIVE minutes, for half price, guaranteed, but since it is a 37, I shall happily defer to the Head Mistress, who, in any case, seems to have taken dead aim on your snag and lives for this type of challenge! Report, please...
since she will obviously be a better value for the $1000, and since her airfare will be less than mine from Cabo!! Cleeeeeeeeveland, eh? Hmmmm. Seriously, I should say that my brash remarks emanated from the fact that the post was listed as a Hunter 33! (I was pretty sure you had a 37, and it turns out you do). If it were a 33, I would perform the miracle in FIVE minutes, for half price, guaranteed, but since it is a 37, I shall happily defer to the Head Mistress, who, in any case, seems to have taken dead aim on your snag and lives for this type of challenge! Report, please...
Note for Ed Schenck
Ed, If I remember correctly, on the older 37 cutters, the vented loop was between the head and the holding tank. On my 1981 model, the vented loop is after the holding tank between the manual waste pump and the waste thru hull. Since having a waste thru hull is illegal on the great lakes, and is probably disconnected on your boat, you don't need a vented loop at all on your head's outlet. How's that for an easy solution to your problem?
Ed, If I remember correctly, on the older 37 cutters, the vented loop was between the head and the holding tank. On my 1981 model, the vented loop is after the holding tank between the manual waste pump and the waste thru hull. Since having a waste thru hull is illegal on the great lakes, and is probably disconnected on your boat, you don't need a vented loop at all on your head's outlet. How's that for an easy solution to your problem?
Very true Ed, however. . .
our "bet" is regarding the water INlet. When we leave the valve on WET the bowl will fill up and overflow in less than 10 minutes. The solution is to add a vented-loop at the back of the head, in that short hose between the water inlet and the pump. I bought the loop and the hose but have not installed it. It's not a fun task because I have to remove that panel and squash it under there with the existing output vented-loop and hose. True, I probably could remove the old output vent since I have no y-valve or overboard pump. But I hope to join you guys and gals on the "big" water someday. Meanwhile my main task is how to deal with Peggy and Tim. Guess I'll buy a ticket and meet Peggy in person!)
our "bet" is regarding the water INlet. When we leave the valve on WET the bowl will fill up and overflow in less than 10 minutes. The solution is to add a vented-loop at the back of the head, in that short hose between the water inlet and the pump. I bought the loop and the hose but have not installed it. It's not a fun task because I have to remove that panel and squash it under there with the existing output vented-loop and hose. True, I probably could remove the old output vent since I have no y-valve or overboard pump. But I hope to join you guys and gals on the "big" water someday. Meanwhile my main task is how to deal with Peggy and Tim. Guess I'll buy a ticket and meet Peggy in person!
)If/when you ever get to "big water,"
and provided you actually get there in this boat, you COULD put the outlet loop back, ya know. Meanwhile, you don't need it, but you apparently need the space for a loop on the inlet hose. Set the boat up for the use it's getting now and for the FORESEEABLE future--not for the use you HOPE it may get "some day." That is...if it doesn't sink its slip first. I say that humorously, but you really are playing Russian roulette, Ed. All it would take is one of those days that happens to all of us--when you have guests aboard, get back way late, and closing up the boat is more of an evacuation than anything approaching orderly...and nobody remembers to check where your guest who used the head last left the dry/flush valve, you also forget to close the seacock and decide that because you'll come back tomorrow to finish cleaning up and it won't hurt for one night. NObody is more anal than I am when it comes to boat maintenance and safety issues, but you wouldn't believe what I've found still on when I've come back after one those times.
and provided you actually get there in this boat, you COULD put the outlet loop back, ya know. Meanwhile, you don't need it, but you apparently need the space for a loop on the inlet hose. Set the boat up for the use it's getting now and for the FORESEEABLE future--not for the use you HOPE it may get "some day." That is...if it doesn't sink its slip first.
I say that humorously, but you really are playing Russian roulette, Ed. All it would take is one of those days that happens to all of us--when you have guests aboard, get back way late, and closing up the boat is more of an evacuation than anything approaching orderly...and nobody remembers to check where your guest who used the head last left the dry/flush valve, you also forget to close the seacock and decide that because you'll come back tomorrow to finish cleaning up and it won't hurt for one night. NObody is more anal than I am when it comes to boat maintenance and safety issues, but you wouldn't believe what I've found still on when I've come back after one those times.Glad YOU wrote that
But you are right Peggy. My stomach even sank until I remembered that I DEFINITELY closed the thru-hull. You are so right, in fact, that I am going to take Wednesday off just to do that one 15 minute task. But if it takes me longer than 15 minutes then I get to keep the $1000.!!
But you are right Peggy. My stomach even sank until I remembered that I DEFINITELY closed the thru-hull. You are so right, in fact, that I am going to take Wednesday off just to do that one 15 minute task. But if it takes me longer than 15 minutes then I get to keep the $1000.!!
water inlet vented loop
Thanks for updating me, I misread your earlier posting. Now a quick question, should the vented loop for the water inlet be between the seacock and the head on the suction side of the pump, or between the outlet of the head's pump and the bowl? Perhaps Peggy can suggest the best way.
Thanks for updating me, I misread your earlier posting. Now a quick question, should the vented loop for the water inlet be between the seacock and the head on the suction side of the pump, or between the outlet of the head's pump and the bowl? Perhaps Peggy can suggest the best way.
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