I have a mid 80's Hunter which I recently purchased. The head is either a mansfield or merrifield or something, can't exactly remember. I didn't seem to find the the company anymore. Do you know if they are still around, or bought by another company. I guess what it comes down to is where do I look for parts or are the kits universal? I think the pumper thingy needs seals or the like.
Head rebuild kit
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Buy a new one.
I doubt you can find a service kit for your make, but not whistanding these repair kits are selling for $70-$80 and you have to do all the work when you can pick up a new head for about $120. Believe me I find it a lot simpler to replace a whole head than to change them O-rings and valves. Go with the most popular ones like Jabsco. This is a functional item, not a conversation piece.
I doubt you can find a service kit for your make, but not whistanding these repair kits are selling for $70-$80 and you have to do all the work when you can pick up a new head for about $120. Believe me I find it a lot simpler to replace a whole head than to change them O-rings and valves. Go with the most popular ones like Jabsco. This is a functional item, not a conversation piece.
It's a Mansfield 751 or 752... Long obsolete
No parts or even rebuild kits have been available for more than 15 years. So it's time for a new toilet. If you want one that will last anywhere near as long as that one has, avoid the cheap "disposable" toilets like Jabsco...go for a Raritan PH II (or the PHC, which is the same pump on a compact base to fit in a smaller space). It'll cost you about $100 more than the cheap toilets, but will last at least 20 years with minimal maintenance. Those who have a PH II will endorse my recommendation wholeheartedly.
No parts or even rebuild kits have been available for more than 15 years. So it's time for a new toilet. If you want one that will last anywhere near as long as that one has, avoid the cheap "disposable" toilets like Jabsco...go for a Raritan PH II (or the PHC, which is the same pump on a compact base to fit in a smaller space). It'll cost you about $100 more than the cheap toilets, but will last at least 20 years with minimal maintenance. Those who have a PH II will endorse my recommendation wholeheartedly.
You did not say the actual issue
you are having. Mine spits a few drops of water out of the top of the pump once in a long while. When it does that, I just pour in a little corn oil and vinegar, pump a couple of strokes, and let it sit overnight. Seems to have worked as a temporary fix for the last five years. I know this will not sit well with you Peggy. Sorry, I just had to say it. How is your little dog Pooh?
you are having. Mine spits a few drops of water out of the top of the pump once in a long while. When it does that, I just pour in a little corn oil and vinegar, pump a couple of strokes, and let it sit overnight. Seems to have worked as a temporary fix for the last five years. I know this will not sit well with you Peggy. Sorry, I just had to say it. How is your little dog Pooh?
i have the same head with a problem!!!
mine must have a clog diaphram fot the air. on dry bowel it is almost impossible to pumb down, while pumping up it clears the bowel but the downward pressure is unbelievable mike
mine must have a clog diaphram fot the air. on dry bowel it is almost impossible to pumb down, while pumping up it clears the bowel but the downward pressure is unbelievable mike
Mike, Pat...
I doubt if either of you have the same toilet as the original poster. The Mansfield brand name hasn't existed for more than 20 years...not since SeaLand bought the marine equipment division of Mansfield plumbing in 1984. So I suspect that both of you have Jabsco toilets. Pat, if you're happy living with temporary fixes that keep your Jabsco barely working, it's ok with me...it's your boat. Mike, there is no diaphragm in your toilet. Your problem is either a blocked tank vent or--if your toilet is also a Jabsco--most likely a failed wet/dry valve in the pump...a VERY common problem in Jabsco toilets built in the last 5 years or so. Due to either a design or tooling defect, the cam (little "gate" in the pump that the lever swings to block or unblock the flow of flush water) hangs up, almost always in the "dry" mode...creating backpressure that feels like a clog. The only cure is a new part...which isn't in the rebuild kit, btw. Continuing pump the toilet against that much pressure will eventually break the cam off. I hope you've installed a vented loop in the head intake, 'cuz without one, when that cam does break off, water will flood the bowl if the intake seacock is open. So you need to fix it...or replace your toilet with one that doesn't have the same defect.
I doubt if either of you have the same toilet as the original poster. The Mansfield brand name hasn't existed for more than 20 years...not since SeaLand bought the marine equipment division of Mansfield plumbing in 1984. So I suspect that both of you have Jabsco toilets. Pat, if you're happy living with temporary fixes that keep your Jabsco barely working, it's ok with me...it's your boat. Mike, there is no diaphragm in your toilet. Your problem is either a blocked tank vent or--if your toilet is also a Jabsco--most likely a failed wet/dry valve in the pump...a VERY common problem in Jabsco toilets built in the last 5 years or so. Due to either a design or tooling defect, the cam (little "gate" in the pump that the lever swings to block or unblock the flow of flush water) hangs up, almost always in the "dry" mode...creating backpressure that feels like a clog. The only cure is a new part...which isn't in the rebuild kit, btw. Continuing pump the toilet against that much pressure will eventually break the cam off. I hope you've installed a vented loop in the head intake, 'cuz without one, when that cam does break off, water will flood the bowl if the intake seacock is open. So you need to fix it...or replace your toilet with one that doesn't have the same defect.
Mike, before Peggy gets hold of you
perhaps you should consider that the 'unbelievable pressure' you are creating is going into a system that isn't really designed for it and shouldn't be experiencing it. And one of the places for that pressure to relieve itself is back into the bowl...... explosively *yks It sounds like you have something clogged or plugged in your toilet discharge line. It ain't gonna get any better by pumping harder. Time to try something else? Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
perhaps you should consider that the 'unbelievable pressure' you are creating is going into a system that isn't really designed for it and shouldn't be experiencing it. And one of the places for that pressure to relieve itself is back into the bowl...... explosively *yks It sounds like you have something clogged or plugged in your toilet discharge line. It ain't gonna get any better by pumping harder. Time to try something else? Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
i'll try to get a picture of unit
the boat is on the hard for the winter, the problem started about a month ago. when the handle is in the wet position it pumped in water and was fine. but in the dry position the down stroke was very hard but the up stroke was very easy and was the stroke that emptied the bowl, it started after i had a few guests that were not familier with marine heads, maybe they broke the dry wet switch or something, regardless it sounds like there is no rebuild available. i will try to get a picture of the manufactures tag when i go to the boat to winterize. mike
the boat is on the hard for the winter, the problem started about a month ago. when the handle is in the wet position it pumped in water and was fine. but in the dry position the down stroke was very hard but the up stroke was very easy and was the stroke that emptied the bowl, it started after i had a few guests that were not familier with marine heads, maybe they broke the dry wet switch or something, regardless it sounds like there is no rebuild available. i will try to get a picture of the manufactures tag when i go to the boat to winterize. mike
Mansfield
It is a mansfield and the boat is 1984. The boat has sat unused for 2 season. I recently installed a new holding bladder and head hoses.When I tryed to flush for the first time there was a lot of water coming out of the top of the pump. When I came back a few days later the bladder was full. Seems to have continued to run slowly, so i assume that there are seals gone and it kept on syphoning in. Also about this check valve should it be closer to the head or closer to the tank. i also am wondering about the wet or dry bowl lever. What is this application for?
It is a mansfield and the boat is 1984. The boat has sat unused for 2 season. I recently installed a new holding bladder and head hoses.When I tryed to flush for the first time there was a lot of water coming out of the top of the pump. When I came back a few days later the bladder was full. Seems to have continued to run slowly, so i assume that there are seals gone and it kept on syphoning in. Also about this check valve should it be closer to the head or closer to the tank. i also am wondering about the wet or dry bowl lever. What is this application for?
Water siphons in for two reasons
Actually 3 reasons...the most important of which is, you left the intake seacock open when you left the boat. All seacocks should be left closed when no one is aboard...open seacocks--especially head seacocks--are the #1 cause of boats sinking in their slips. Yes, the seals are gone...and so is the wet/dry valve cam in the pump. And, since it's leaking, I suspect there's a hairline crack in the pump housing. That toilet is not repairable. The wet/dry valve controls the flow of flush water...in the wet position, flush water comes in...in the dry position, no flush water comes in. The pump pushes bowl contents out in either postion. However, without a vented loop in the head intake, water will siphon even when you're aboard...even in a toilet that's working properly if the wet/dry valve is left in the "wet" mode. What check valve? There shouldn't BE any check valves in the head intake OR the head discharge. Or are you referring to a vented loop? What does it look like and what do you think it's supposed to do? I wish you'd ask for some advice before you did any work.
Actually 3 reasons...the most important of which is, you left the intake seacock open when you left the boat. All seacocks should be left closed when no one is aboard...open seacocks--especially head seacocks--are the #1 cause of boats sinking in their slips. Yes, the seals are gone...and so is the wet/dry valve cam in the pump. And, since it's leaking, I suspect there's a hairline crack in the pump housing. That toilet is not repairable. The wet/dry valve controls the flow of flush water...in the wet position, flush water comes in...in the dry position, no flush water comes in. The pump pushes bowl contents out in either postion. However, without a vented loop in the head intake, water will siphon even when you're aboard...even in a toilet that's working properly if the wet/dry valve is left in the "wet" mode. What check valve? There shouldn't BE any check valves in the head intake OR the head discharge. Or are you referring to a vented loop? What does it look like and what do you think it's supposed to do? I wish you'd ask for some advice before you did any work.
You were too late, Bob...
Sometimes I wonder if I've really taught you anything! Whyizzit that any time there's backpressure when pumping a toilet, everyone automatically assumes the head discharge has to be clogged??? That's the LEAST likely possibility. The FIRST thing to check is the tank vent for a blockage that's pressurized the tank...'cuz the odds are at least 100-1 that's the problem. Clogs in the head discharge line are actually very rare...as more than a few owners have learned the hard way by taking a bath in their tank contents when they disconnected the head discharge hose from a pressurized tank. Clogged tank vents, otoh, are VERY common...especially on sailboats because waste spills into the vent--even out the vent--when the boat is heeled...building up in the connection on the tank and the in the thru-hull fitting till it blocks the vent completely. When that happens, air in the tank displaced by incoming waste has nowhere to go but back toward the toilet...causing the toilet to become harder and harder to pump, to "burp," or waste to flow back into the bowl (something the joker valve cannot prevent!) as the tank becomes increasingly pressurized. Worst case, the system will erupt in the toilet or the tank will burst. Nor can a tank be pumped out when the vent is blocked...'cuz if the pumpout can't pull air into the tank to replace contents as they're sucked out, the pumpout--or macerator--will pull a vacuum. A particularly strong pumpout pulling against a blocked vent can even crack a tank. So any time there's backpressure, immediately cease all use of the toilet and do not attempt to pump out until you've made sure the vent is clear. And btw, while I have the floor. The original poster said he installed a bladder...not a good choice for waste holding, but he's done it. What REALLY matters now is whether the bladder is vented or unvented. 'Cuz if you installed an UNvented bladder that MUST be corrected immediately...CG regs require that all waste tanks not only be vented, but be vented to the outside of the boat because waste produces gasses--including methane, which is flammable and hydrogen sulfide, which can be lethal in high concentration--that will blow out a fitting or even burst an unvented tank.
Sometimes I wonder if I've really taught you anything!
Whyizzit that any time there's backpressure when pumping a toilet, everyone automatically assumes the head discharge has to be clogged??? That's the LEAST likely possibility. The FIRST thing to check is the tank vent for a blockage that's pressurized the tank...'cuz the odds are at least 100-1 that's the problem. Clogs in the head discharge line are actually very rare...as more than a few owners have learned the hard way by taking a bath in their tank contents when they disconnected the head discharge hose from a pressurized tank. Clogged tank vents, otoh, are VERY common...especially on sailboats because waste spills into the vent--even out the vent--when the boat is heeled...building up in the connection on the tank and the in the thru-hull fitting till it blocks the vent completely. When that happens, air in the tank displaced by incoming waste has nowhere to go but back toward the toilet...causing the toilet to become harder and harder to pump, to "burp," or waste to flow back into the bowl (something the joker valve cannot prevent!) as the tank becomes increasingly pressurized. Worst case, the system will erupt in the toilet or the tank will burst. Nor can a tank be pumped out when the vent is blocked...'cuz if the pumpout can't pull air into the tank to replace contents as they're sucked out, the pumpout--or macerator--will pull a vacuum. A particularly strong pumpout pulling against a blocked vent can even crack a tank. So any time there's backpressure, immediately cease all use of the toilet and do not attempt to pump out until you've made sure the vent is clear. And btw, while I have the floor. The original poster said he installed a bladder...not a good choice for waste holding, but he's done it. What REALLY matters now is whether the bladder is vented or unvented. 'Cuz if you installed an UNvented bladder that MUST be corrected immediately...CG regs require that all waste tanks not only be vented, but be vented to the outside of the boat because waste produces gasses--including methane, which is flammable and hydrogen sulfide, which can be lethal in high concentration--that will blow out a fitting or even burst an unvented tank.Thanks Peggy
Peggy here is the whole deal on my boat. When I bought the boat from the brokerage they put me in touch ith the prevous owner who also happend to be the orig owner. The boat from new had the forward holding tank made into freshwater so the deck pumpout was water in tothe top of the tank. They then installed a holding bladder as well as a "flush directly over" system. The hoses were smelly etc so i decided to start from scratch. I was thinking about going back to origanal holding but after filling the tank with water noticed a tiny drip coming from the tank so I decided to keep it fresh as a drip of fresh is better than foul. I rerun the deck pumpout put in a new bladder as the other one really stunk, i also added a vent that went outside as the other didn't have that. I also kept the ability to pump overboard so that it is set up easily if we were to sell or go south. After finally getting all the head hoses changed it was time to test the toilet and deck pumpout before use cause i would rather take things apart before actual use than after. I guess the questions are is there supposed to be anything inline between the toilet and the holding to keep it from going back into the head or is this accomplished in the head itself via the joker valve. I didn't notice a vented loop on the intake but did rinstall the one on the overboard discharge. So you are saying that if you use the head in "dry" position the pump pulls the contents out and does not replace with water there by using less space per flush in your holding? Does it use water but just bypasses the bowl?
Peggy here is the whole deal on my boat. When I bought the boat from the brokerage they put me in touch ith the prevous owner who also happend to be the orig owner. The boat from new had the forward holding tank made into freshwater so the deck pumpout was water in tothe top of the tank. They then installed a holding bladder as well as a "flush directly over" system. The hoses were smelly etc so i decided to start from scratch. I was thinking about going back to origanal holding but after filling the tank with water noticed a tiny drip coming from the tank so I decided to keep it fresh as a drip of fresh is better than foul. I rerun the deck pumpout put in a new bladder as the other one really stunk, i also added a vent that went outside as the other didn't have that. I also kept the ability to pump overboard so that it is set up easily if we were to sell or go south. After finally getting all the head hoses changed it was time to test the toilet and deck pumpout before use cause i would rather take things apart before actual use than after. I guess the questions are is there supposed to be anything inline between the toilet and the holding to keep it from going back into the head or is this accomplished in the head itself via the joker valve. I didn't notice a vented loop on the intake but did rinstall the one on the overboard discharge. So you are saying that if you use the head in "dry" position the pump pulls the contents out and does not replace with water there by using less space per flush in your holding? Does it use water but just bypasses the bowl?
No...there should not be anything inline...
The toilet joker valve is the only backflow preventer needed...it should be replaced every two years. However, joker valves aren't supposed to block slow seepage, only a serious backflow caused by backpressure. The way to prevent backflow when there isn't any backpressure: pump the toilet long enough in the dry mode to push the bowl contents all the way to the tank, or at least over the top of any vented loop in the line. Any manual toilet that's working anywhere NEAR factory specs can move bowl contents at least 6' in the dry mode, btw. "So you are saying that if you use the head in "dry" position the pump pulls the contents out and does not replace with water there by using less space per flush in your holding? Yes. "Does it use water but just bypasses the bowl?" No. The wet/dry valve isn't really a valve...it's just a little "gate" in the pump that the lever swings to block or unblock incoming flush water. At least, that's how it's supposed to work...based on what you've said, if you left your toilet in the dry mode and water still continued to siphon through the bowl into the tank, it may not work that way any more in your toilet. Which brings us to the need for a vented loop in the head intake. A vented loop has two functions--it breaks the siphon started by priming the pump when the toilet is flushed, and it puts an arch in the line well above the waterline that prevents water outside the boat from finding its own level inside the boat via the toilet bowl...it prevents the bowl from filling if the toilet is left in the wet mode. However, a vented loop in the intake does not excuse leaving the head intake thru-hull open while away from the boat...wet/dry valves have a very high failure rate, so relying on it instead of closing seacocks is dangerous. The vented loop in the intake does NOT go between the thru-hull and pump...it must be installed between the pump and the bowl, to replace the short piece of hose the mfr uses to connect 'em. And it should be at least 6-8" above the waterline at any angle of heel. You might want to check out the link below to learn how toilets work in more detail, how to maintain the whole system, how to trouble-shoot problems, and especially how to prevent 'em...'cuz prevention is a LOT easier than cure! Btw...I finally deciphered your screen name.
The toilet joker valve is the only backflow preventer needed...it should be replaced every two years. However, joker valves aren't supposed to block slow seepage, only a serious backflow caused by backpressure. The way to prevent backflow when there isn't any backpressure: pump the toilet long enough in the dry mode to push the bowl contents all the way to the tank, or at least over the top of any vented loop in the line. Any manual toilet that's working anywhere NEAR factory specs can move bowl contents at least 6' in the dry mode, btw. "So you are saying that if you use the head in "dry" position the pump pulls the contents out and does not replace with water there by using less space per flush in your holding? Yes. "Does it use water but just bypasses the bowl?" No. The wet/dry valve isn't really a valve...it's just a little "gate" in the pump that the lever swings to block or unblock incoming flush water. At least, that's how it's supposed to work...based on what you've said, if you left your toilet in the dry mode and water still continued to siphon through the bowl into the tank, it may not work that way any more in your toilet. Which brings us to the need for a vented loop in the head intake. A vented loop has two functions--it breaks the siphon started by priming the pump when the toilet is flushed, and it puts an arch in the line well above the waterline that prevents water outside the boat from finding its own level inside the boat via the toilet bowl...it prevents the bowl from filling if the toilet is left in the wet mode. However, a vented loop in the intake does not excuse leaving the head intake thru-hull open while away from the boat...wet/dry valves have a very high failure rate, so relying on it instead of closing seacocks is dangerous. The vented loop in the intake does NOT go between the thru-hull and pump...it must be installed between the pump and the bowl, to replace the short piece of hose the mfr uses to connect 'em. And it should be at least 6-8" above the waterline at any angle of heel. You might want to check out the link below to learn how toilets work in more detail, how to maintain the whole system, how to trouble-shoot problems, and especially how to prevent 'em...'cuz prevention is a LOT easier than cure! Btw...I finally deciphered your screen name.
Didn't want to steal your thunder, Peggy
I do know about the vent..... I was including it as part of the 'toilet discharge line' in my post. I just thought it was worth making the point that pressurizing a system that isn't meant for it is a potentially bad idea. Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
I do know about the vent..... I was including it as part of the 'toilet discharge line' in my post. I just thought it was worth making the point that pressurizing a system that isn't meant for it is a potentially bad idea. Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
But the tank vent ISN'T part of head discharge
The toilet discharges into the tank...the vent comes out of the tank. Both the toilet and the tank are components of the same system...but a clog in the head discharge and a clog in a tank vent are two entirely separate issues. Suggesting that someone look for a clog in the head discharge when you mean the tank vent is misleading...and can result in a very unpleasant bath for your "victim!" But you were right that backpressure while flushing a toilet is NOT a good thing--not just potentially, NOT! so it's just barely possible that I MIGHT eventually succeed in training you after all!
The toilet discharges into the tank...the vent comes out of the tank. Both the toilet and the tank are components of the same system...but a clog in the head discharge and a clog in a tank vent are two entirely separate issues. Suggesting that someone look for a clog in the head discharge when you mean the tank vent is misleading...and can result in a very unpleasant bath for your "victim!" But you were right that backpressure while flushing a toilet is NOT a good thing--not just potentially, NOT! so it's just barely possible that I MIGHT eventually succeed in training you after all!
My first wife thought so, too.....
and she's still in Egypt *yks You are right, Peggy, I was too vague. Just trying not to be so long-winded....hmmm, seems both my first wife and current (and final) wife agree on that fault...... Nahhhhh, not me *X Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
and she's still in Egypt *yks You are right, Peggy, I was too vague. Just trying not to be so long-winded....hmmm, seems both my first wife and current (and final) wife agree on that fault...... Nahhhhh, not me *X Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
Mike in Chicago
The Unbelievable backpressure you are talking about on the downstroke is more than likely a restricted intake to the head. The downstroke is when the water is pulled into the head and is created by a vaccumed hydraulic because water won't compress or expand....I know when I've had seeweed block the intake or forget to turn on the thruhull that is what happens to me.. Tim Welsh Hunter 34 S/V Cabo Wabo
The Unbelievable backpressure you are talking about on the downstroke is more than likely a restricted intake to the head. The downstroke is when the water is pulled into the head and is created by a vaccumed hydraulic because water won't compress or expand....I know when I've had seeweed block the intake or forget to turn on the thruhull that is what happens to me.. Tim Welsh Hunter 34 S/V Cabo Wabo
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