head problems

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ScottD

.
Oct 6, 2008
29
S2 9.2 Mark Twain Lake
First time de-winterizing a head on my S2 9.2
I opened the seacock, started to pump water into it to flush the anti freeze and the handle is now stuck in the down position. It will not come up. I tried to pull it up, but did not want to force it. Any ideas? Not sure where to start. I did not want to start taking it apart until I checked with you-all.
thanks
Scott D
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,832
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
What model Head

Shut the seacock and start taking it apart,try some silicone spray down into the pump,just go easy with it and try to loosen it up,than add some silicone grease and keep it lubed.
Nick
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
As a general rule, more information is better than less... especially when asking people to diagnose something they have never seen before...

What make/model head do you have?? That is the very minimum of information you should have provided in your post.

Second, how is the head plumbed?? Does it flush into the holding tank directly or does it go to a diverter valve and can then go to the holding tank or overboard?

How is the water intake setup on the head??? Is it seawater only, or is it also capable of flushing with fresh water???

When was the last time you pumped out your holding tank??

When was the last time you checked the vent line on your holding tank? Is it clear??
 
May 23, 2004
3,319
I'm in the market as were . Colonial Beach
You want to do what sailing dog talked about before you get into anything major. In the end I had some head problems a few years ago and I found the problem of all the issues. It was the CHEAP AS CRAP JABSCO head. I ended up buying a Raritan PHII and replacing the Jabsco. I DO NOT REGRET this switch because the new head is very reliable and less problems. Most on here will agree that this is one of the best manual heads that you can get.
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
BTW, if it is a Jabsco head, get the PHII LBA or PHC LBA that is offered here and get rid of it..... Even Peggie Hall considers the Jabsco heads JUNK.
 
Dec 2, 1997
9,011
- - LIttle Rock
A wild guess...

IF the toilet is a Jabsco...and IF it's only 2 years old or newer...it's Jabsco's new "Twist 'n' Lock" pump. Instructions are here: Jabsco 29090 -3000 Twist 'n' Lock manual toilet instructions The only difference between this model and older models is the "Twist 'n' Lock" feature, which locks the pump handle down...really BAD idea that's supposed to prevent backflow.

Which brings me to my wild guess: I wonder if you accidently locked the pump handle down. So the first thing I'd check is whether the handle will rotate 90 degrees in either direction and if so, whether that frees it.

If that's not it...

A blocked tank vent is NOT your culprit...that would pressurize the system, pushing the handle UP and making it hard to push down...it wouldn't grab the pump shaft and refuse to let go. N0r does it matter when you pumped out last or how the toilet is plumbed....the problem is in the toilet pump, not in the plumbing. So let's get some information about the toilet:

What is the make/model and AGE of your toilet?

Did you put any water in the bowl before you starting pumping, or did you just start with a dry toilet?

When, if ever, was the pump last lubricated...with what? Have you replaced any parts in it? If so, when?
 

ScottD

.
Oct 6, 2008
29
S2 9.2 Mark Twain Lake
Here are some details.
Raritan PHII. Not sure how olld it is, but I don't think it is very old.
Not sure how it is plumbed. It takes in lake water. Dumps into the waste tank.
It had a little antifreeze in it when I first pumped it, but not much. I opened seacock, pushed the handle down one time and that is where it stuck. It was not used more than once or twice last year, and that was only to test it when I bought the boat.
I have not lubircated it, so I will try that on my next visit.
Any other ideas?
Thanks
Scott
 
Dec 2, 1997
9,011
- - LIttle Rock
I'm pretty sure I know what your problem is

[FONT=&quot]When you winterized last year, I'm betting that you only poured antifreeze into the bowl...that you didn't disconnect the intake line from the thru-hull, put it the jug of antifreeze and pump antifreeze through the entire intake and pump.

If you simply pour anti-freeze into the toilet bowl and pump the toilet a few times, you've protected the discharge side of the toilet but not the intake side of the toilet. In the front of the toilet's pump, under the selector knob for dry or wet flush is a spring-loaded rubber ball--a check valve that controls the incoming rinse water to the toilet. A little water stays in this area all the time. If you don't replace this water with anti-freeze by pumping the anti-freeze through the entire pump from the intake through-hull, that water will freeze...and when it freezes it doesn't crack the plastic housing or break anything, but instead it forces the rubber ball down into the water passage immediately beneath it, completely sealing off the passage. Once this happens, you can't pump the pump or bring in any outside water. The inlet valve then has to be disassembled and the rubber ball then must be driven out with a hammer and dowel. It's a real pain in the butt, plus you usually chew up the ball in the process of getting it out, so you might as well order replacement before you take anything apart.

Usually, the pump refuses to go down...but in your case, it went down and refuses to come back up. Most likely that means there'was a little leakage past the piston "O" ring...which means you'll have to disassemble the pump to find out fix it. In which case, you'd prob'ly be well advised to put a rebuild kit in it. If the toilet is was made after 6/92, the correct kit is PHIIRKC.

The PHII is an excellent toilet...consistently rated the best manual toilet under $500 for a couple of decades. Once you've got it working again and learn how to operate and maintain it, it should give you 20 years of reliable trouble-free service. You can download and print the manual for it from here: [/FONT]Raritan PH II
[FONT=&quot]
But you also need to USE it! Machinery, whether mechanical or electric, is the same as people: it needs exercise. Without it, equipment deteriorates MUCH faster than it does with continuous heavy use.[/FONT]
 
Last edited:
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
Good to know... I winterize my head by filling the sink with antifreeze and pumping it through the whole system. I usually leave a bit in the bowl to remind me... :) Having the ability to flush the head via the head sink is really convenient, especially when it comes to winterizing the system.

[FONT=&quot]When you winterized last year, I'm betting that you only poured antifreeze into the bowl...that you didn't disconnect the intake line from the thru-hull, put it the jug of antifreeze and pump antifreeze through the entire intake and pump.

If you simply pour anti-freeze into the toilet bowl and pump the toilet a few times, you've protected the discharge side of the toilet but not the intake side of the toilet. In the front of the toilet's pump, under the selector knob for dry or wet flush is a spring-loaded rubber ball--a check valve that controls the incoming rinse water to the toilet. A little water stays in this area all the time. If you don't replace this water with anti-freeze by pumping the anti-freeze through the entire pump from the intake through-hull, that water will freeze...and when it freezes it doesn't crack the plastic housing or break anything, but instead it forces the rubber ball down into the water passage immediately beneath it, completely sealing off the passage. Once this happens, you can't pump the pump or bring in any outside water. The inlet valve then has to be disassembled and the rubber ball then must be driven out with a hammer and dowel. It's a real pain in the butt, plus you usually chew up the ball in the process of getting it out, so you might as well order replacement before you take anything apart.

Usually, the pump refuses to go down...but in your case, it went down and refuses to come back up. Most likely that means there'was a little leakage past the piston "O" ring...which means you'll have to disassemble the pump to find out fix it. In which case, you'd prob'ly be well advised to put a rebuild kit in it. If the toilet is was made after 6/92, the correct kit is PHIIRKC.

The PHII is an excellent toilet...consistently rated the best manual toilet under $500 for a couple of decades. Once you've got it working again and learn how to operate and maintain it, it should give you 20 years of reliable trouble-free service. You can download and print the manual for it from here: [/FONT]Raritan PH II
[FONT=&quot]
But you also need to USE it! Machinery, whether mechanical or electric, is the same as people: it needs exercise. Without it, equipment deteriorates MUCH faster than it does with continuous heavy use.[/FONT]
 

ScottD

.
Oct 6, 2008
29
S2 9.2 Mark Twain Lake
Re: I'm pretty sure I know what your problem is

Sailingdog,
Excellent advice. Turns out both balls on each end of the unit were jammed.
Raritan was very helpful, sent replacement balls at no charge.
Thanks
Scott
 
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