I have done everything I can think of, from treating the waste tank, changing the physical head along with all the head plumbing, yet the odor from the waste tank is still there, especially after the boat has been closed up for a week or so. I keep the a/c running because I realize with the summer heat here in Florida it would get too hot and very humid in the cabin. The only thing I haven’t done is replace the tank itself. Also, while the boat is at dock, when I return after a week, the head is filled with waste water and the odor is overwhelming. I constantly have it pumped out but if after a few uses the odor plus the back up starts again. I put a tank watch light to make sure it is never more than 3 inches from the top and always have it pumped before then. Also when sailing and the backup makes a mess thoughout the head and sometimes into the salon. I have all the valves closed and connot figure out why that happens. Is it possible too much has solidified in the tank and if so what can I use to break it up or should I just start budgeting for a new tank?
Head Odor
- Thread starter Ken C
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I have questions...
You don't need a new tank...and the problem isn't solidified sludge (which wouldn't be there if you maintained your tank properly). And before anyone else chimes, he doesn't need a new joker valve, or valve gasket either.
I think I know what your problem is, but I need some answers to be sure:
You say you've replaced the toilet and all the hoses...including the tank vent line and tank discharge hose?
When you replaced the toilet did you install a vented loop in the intake as described in the instructions?
You said that while the boat is at dock the head fills with waste water and the odor is overwhelming.... Do you mean the toilet bowl is full of water, or the tank? Or both?
You say that waste also backs up when sailing...enough to overflow the bowl...does this happen even if the toilet hasn't been used since the tank was pumped out?
You said you have all the valves closed. Does that mean the head intake seacock is closed, or only the wet/dry "valve" on the toilet? What other valves are in the system?
You don't need a new tank...and the problem isn't solidified sludge (which wouldn't be there if you maintained your tank properly). And before anyone else chimes, he doesn't need a new joker valve, or valve gasket either.
I think I know what your problem is, but I need some answers to be sure:
You say you've replaced the toilet and all the hoses...including the tank vent line and tank discharge hose?
When you replaced the toilet did you install a vented loop in the intake as described in the instructions?
You said that while the boat is at dock the head fills with waste water and the odor is overwhelming.... Do you mean the toilet bowl is full of water, or the tank? Or both?
You say that waste also backs up when sailing...enough to overflow the bowl...does this happen even if the toilet hasn't been used since the tank was pumped out?
You said you have all the valves closed. Does that mean the head intake seacock is closed, or only the wet/dry "valve" on the toilet? What other valves are in the system?
Simple fix
Peggie is the princess of heads, so I don't dispute her expertise, but consider this...
After a week in the hot sun, the water in the hoses has virtually cooked the bacteria into a frenzy. Your problem is fixed by simply pumping the water through the hoses until fresher sea water displaces the old water.
Alternatively, you could re-rig your system to draw fresh water from the fresh water tank instead of any seawater. That requires a simple Y-valve. I did this for a Hunter 29.5 years ago and never had the problem again.
Peggie is the princess of heads, so I don't dispute her expertise, but consider this...
After a week in the hot sun, the water in the hoses has virtually cooked the bacteria into a frenzy. Your problem is fixed by simply pumping the water through the hoses until fresher sea water displaces the old water.
Alternatively, you could re-rig your system to draw fresh water from the fresh water tank instead of any seawater. That requires a simple Y-valve. I did this for a Hunter 29.5 years ago and never had the problem again.
But this answer does not address his other issue (which I also have, on a Beneteau Oceanis 400): "Also, while the boat is at dock, when I return after a week, the head is filled with waste water and the odor is overwhelming. I constantly have it pumped out but if after a few uses the odor plus the back up starts again."
What is causing the back up? I leave the head floor dry, but when I come back a week later it's full of 'yellow' water what don't smell like roses.
Water on the floor: On my last cruise a week ago I found that all four bolts that hold the bowl to the base were loose and yellow water leaking onto the floor in slight amounts. The bowl could rock back and forth. There were no lock washers or locknuts, so that's another to-do item. Tightened the bolts, problem solved.
Don't even THINK of doing what "deadline" suggests!
NEVER ever connect any toilet designed to use sea water to the onboard fresh water plumbing..it cannot be done without risk of polluting the potable water supply with e-coli, damage to the toilet or both...and EVERY toilet mfr specifically warns against it in their installation instructions. "Deadline" may have gotten away with it, but he was just lucky.
However, there are ways to safely replumb a sea water toilet to use fresh water...they've been thoroughly discussed in various sbo.com forums.
Meanwhile, I'm waiting for the answers to my questions before offering a diagnosis of the problem and prescribing a cure.
NEVER ever connect any toilet designed to use sea water to the onboard fresh water plumbing..it cannot be done without risk of polluting the potable water supply with e-coli, damage to the toilet or both...and EVERY toilet mfr specifically warns against it in their installation instructions. "Deadline" may have gotten away with it, but he was just lucky.
However, there are ways to safely replumb a sea water toilet to use fresh water...they've been thoroughly discussed in various sbo.com forums.
Meanwhile, I'm waiting for the answers to my questions before offering a diagnosis of the problem and prescribing a cure.
I purchased the boat over a year ago from the original owner. It was on the hard for over a year, so I am not sure if the waste tank was maintained properly.
Regarding the replacement of the head and hoses. I had it done by an outside service. I am not sure if the vent line was replaced, but I did replace all the stanchions and one of the stanchions is the vent for the waste tank. I don't know if the hose from the tank to the stanchions was replaced. The tank discharge hose was replaced.
Regarding a vented loop, as mentioned I did not do the work myself, where should the vented loop be?
The boat is sitting at dock and when I return after a week or so, the toilet bowl is filled with brown waste water, literally thickened with human waste. Not quite as thick but almost as though someone has used it and didn’t flush.
It is hard to say if the over flow happens when sailing right after the tank has been emptied. It happens when we are heeled over, most day sales we are not in heavy winds.
I close the head intake seacock and the sink drain
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Peggie Hall-HeadMistress;634788]You don't need a new tank...and the problem isn't solidified sludge (which wouldn't be there if you maintained your tank properly). And before anyone else chimes, he doesn't need a new joker valve, or valve gasket either.
I think I know what your problem is, but I need some answers to be sure:
You say you've replaced the toilet and all the hoses...including the tank vent line and tank discharge hose?
When you replaced the toilet did you install a vented loop in the intake as described in the instructions?
You said that while the boat is at dock the head fills with waste water and the odor is overwhelming.... Do you mean the toilet bowl is full of water, or the tank? Or both?
You say that waste also backs up when sailing...enough to overflow the bowl...does this happen even if the toilet hasn't been used since the tank was pumped out?
You said you have all the valves closed. Does that mean the head intake seacock is closed, or only the wet/dry "valve" on the toilet? What other valves are in the system?[/quote]
Ok...I'm pretty sure I know what your problem is
A blocked tank vent.
Catalina is the only boat builder who runs waste tank vent lines into rail stanchions. It's such a bad idea that they don't do it on most boats any more. The tank can't just vent into the stanchion...that's a dead end. There has to be a slit or holes in the stanchion to provide an escape for gasses and a source of air to replace contents as they're pumped out.The slit is so small that it constantly gets clogged, which is only one of the reasons why venting into a stanchion is such a bad idea...but since you've replaced all the stanchions, I'd bet real money that no slit or other opening was cut in the new stanchion..which would mean your tank isn't vented...the vent line is connected to a fitting in the stanchion, but that's all.
That would explain ALL your symptoms...a blocked vent would cause flushing the toilet to pressurize the system...which would create back pressure that's sending waste back to the bowl...that's how the tank is relieving the pressure. It's also preventing the tank from being pumped out...because without a source of air to replace contents as they're pulled out, the pump would pull a vacuum...which would explain why you're seeing back flow even immediately after pumping out...the tank is still full.
Do NOT use the toilet again or attempt to pump out again till you're sure you have a working tank vent. If I'm right, now's the time to correct Catalina's original bad idea by putting a proper vent thru-hull in the side of the boat and re-route the vent line to it. Once you do have a working tank vent and can pump out and thoroughly rinse out your system, your problems should be over.
As for the vented loop in your toilet...surely there was an owners manual that includes installation instructions with the new toilet, and surely the installer left that manual on the boat. You'll find instructions and illustrations regarding vented loop placement in it.
A blocked tank vent.
Catalina is the only boat builder who runs waste tank vent lines into rail stanchions. It's such a bad idea that they don't do it on most boats any more. The tank can't just vent into the stanchion...that's a dead end. There has to be a slit or holes in the stanchion to provide an escape for gasses and a source of air to replace contents as they're pumped out.The slit is so small that it constantly gets clogged, which is only one of the reasons why venting into a stanchion is such a bad idea...but since you've replaced all the stanchions, I'd bet real money that no slit or other opening was cut in the new stanchion..which would mean your tank isn't vented...the vent line is connected to a fitting in the stanchion, but that's all.
That would explain ALL your symptoms...a blocked vent would cause flushing the toilet to pressurize the system...which would create back pressure that's sending waste back to the bowl...that's how the tank is relieving the pressure. It's also preventing the tank from being pumped out...because without a source of air to replace contents as they're pulled out, the pump would pull a vacuum...which would explain why you're seeing back flow even immediately after pumping out...the tank is still full.
Do NOT use the toilet again or attempt to pump out again till you're sure you have a working tank vent. If I'm right, now's the time to correct Catalina's original bad idea by putting a proper vent thru-hull in the side of the boat and re-route the vent line to it. Once you do have a working tank vent and can pump out and thoroughly rinse out your system, your problems should be over.
As for the vented loop in your toilet...surely there was an owners manual that includes installation instructions with the new toilet, and surely the installer left that manual on the boat. You'll find instructions and illustrations regarding vented loop placement in it.
The stanchions were purchased directly from Catalina with the year and vin number of the boat, so the proper stanchions were supplied. There are two vented stanchions one for the fresh water tanks and the other for the waste tank. Even though the stanchion is vented, I think I will try your suggestion and do a thru hull vent.
Regarding the manual for the head with instructions for the vented loop, the installer did not leave it behind. I will go online to the manufactures web site, I am sure I can download installation instructions from there.
I will inform you as to the results.
Thank you
Regarding the manual for the head with instructions for the vented loop, the installer did not leave it behind. I will go online to the manufactures web site, I am sure I can download installation instructions from there.
I will inform you as to the results.
Thank you
Hmmm...
I wonder if the yard put the stanchions in the right places...???
You do need to trace the vent line route and also find out whether the vent line was replaced when the rest of the hoses were. If it wasn't, the blockage could very well be in the connection to the tank--the tank fitting and that end of the vent line. I'd open the deck pumpout cap to relieve any pressure in the tank before removing any hoses from any fittings!
And you might also want to check out the link in my signature...it goes to a "marine toilets and holding tanks 101" manual that should help you learn how to operate and maintain a trouble-free and ODOR free system!
I wonder if the yard put the stanchions in the right places...???
You do need to trace the vent line route and also find out whether the vent line was replaced when the rest of the hoses were. If it wasn't, the blockage could very well be in the connection to the tank--the tank fitting and that end of the vent line. I'd open the deck pumpout cap to relieve any pressure in the tank before removing any hoses from any fittings!
And you might also want to check out the link in my signature...it goes to a "marine toilets and holding tanks 101" manual that should help you learn how to operate and maintain a trouble-free and ODOR free system!
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