Head occasionally bubbles and won’t flush when stuck with a #2

[skunther]

I’ve been having this issue intermittently. I have a Raritan PH2. It normally flushes everything down just fine, but occasionally an especially hard #2 seems to block things, and then it won’t flush down unless we let it soak for as long as a day and even them it requires some coaxing. When flushing during one of these episodes, bubbles will come up in the bowl when flushing. The toilet seems to otherwise work just fine - this only happens occasionally.
What is causing this? Any way I can fix it?

 

[kappykaplan]

@Peggie Hall HeadMistress should be able to address your issue.

 

[thinwater]

Yup, Peggy. She knows the PH II.

The hoses could be clogged with scale. There could be a kink in the hose. The joker valve could be old. All kidding aside, more fiber could help in two ways. flushing in two stages can help. And use enough water--there should be some in the bowl when you start. And of course, TP that actually dissolves (test by soaking in a small bowl for a few minutes--it should disintegrate) in a moder ate amount. In more TP is needed, try flushing in two stages.

TMI, I am sure.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

The lack of fiber in your diet is creating the "unflushable poo" ...your failure to add water to the bowl ahead of flushing it is the main reason it can't make it through the pump and down the toilet discharge line. There's a reason why there's always water in the bowl at home: because it's needed for solids deposits.

The Raritan PHII isn't designed to bring in water and hold it--no manual toilet is, so you'll have to use a beer cup from the sink, your joker valve will have to be in excellent condition to prevent the water from running out as fast as it comes in, and you'll still have to add it immediately before flushing.

Even after/if you add the fiber to your diet that'll soften your poop, you'll still want to add water to the bowl ahead of use 'cuz that'll leave you with a much cleaner bowl that needs a lot less pumping to erase any skid marks.

--Peggie

 

[skunther]

Thanks for that. We do eat a lot of fiber (we’re pretty health conscious), and we keep an old plastic jar by the toilet to add water when necessary. Any poop is well inundated with at least 3 cups of water when flushing. It seems like the flapper valve gets blocked at times, as when I do the draw stroke during these situations, the bowl empties slightly, then on the pump stroke the bowl backfills slightly, with subsequent bubbling. I’m really over this situation.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

You're describing a strong indication of a blocked holding tank vent. When air replaced by incoming waste can't escape out the vent, the tank becomes pressurized, preventing the toilet from flushing. A blocked vent will also only allow a pumpout to remove a gallon or two because without a source of air to replace tank contents as they're pulled out, the pumpout will pull a vacuum that won't let it pull any more out.

So clear the tank vent before using the toilet again...the two most common locations for a blockage are the vent thru-hull and the other end of the vent line--that end of the hose and vent fitting on the tank. Start by cleaning out the thru-hull...use a screwdriver blade, ice pick...whatever works. If that doesn't result in a spew, open the deck pumpout fitting cap VERY CAREFULLY with a hose at the ready and make sure you're UPwind of it to relieve any pressure in the tank. Now you can remove the vent line from the tank to clean out that end of the hose and the fitting.

Once you've done all that, replace the "vent" thru-hull with an open bulkhead (aka "mushroom") fitting. This will do two things: 1. greatly improve the tank's ability to "breathe"--exchange fresh air with the gasses in the tank--essential to preventing odor...and 2. prevent future vent blockages by putting a hose nozzle against it to back-flush the vent line regularly. Anything trying to set up housekeeping in it will get washed into the tank.

--Peggie

 

[skunther]

I’ve checked the vent and confirmed it is not clogged - air easily passes both directions, and there is no issue with pumping out.
What is extremely confusing for me is how air bubbles rise up from the bowl when it is clogged and I am pumping. How could air possibly be getting introduced into the system such that bubbles rise from the bowl when it is clogged and I’m pumping?

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

The lack of fiber in your diet is creating the "unflushable poo"

Sorry for the thread drift - but it’s also setting him up for higher risk of numerous problems such as colon cancer, IBS, etc. and there is clear evidence that various autoimmune diseases may be associated with poor gut health. (Fiber is the pre-biotic that is a requirement for a healthy microbiome, and probiotics don’t help if there are inadequate prebiotics for the microbes to feed on).
Again, sorry for this off topic post but getting enough fiber is essential for good health, and most people don’t seem to know this. Most Americans are fiber-deficient.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

What is extremely confusing for is how air bubbles rise up from the bowl when it is clogged and I am pumping. How could air possibly be getting introduced into the system such that bubbles rise from the bowl when it is clogged and I’m pumping?

Clogs don't necessarily fill the toilet discharge line completely...pumping the toilet is pulling air in from the tank.

Fwiw, solid waste is 75% water, so it dissolves very quickly in water. so most clogs will dissolve on their own in about an hour. The ones that don't are usually something that shouldn't have been flushed.

--Peggie

 

[Hayden Watson]

Metamucil?

 

[jviss]

Sorry for the thread drift - but it’s also setting him up for higher risk of numerous problems such as colon cancer, IBS, etc. and there is clear evidence that various autoimmune diseases may be associated with poor gut health. (Fiber is the pre-biotic that is a requirement for a healthy microbiome, and probiotics don’t help if there are inadequate prebiotics for the microbes to feed on).
Again, sorry for this off topic post but getting enough fiber is essential for good health, and most people don’t seem to know this. Most Americans are fiber-deficient.

From the O.P.:

We do eat a lot of fiber (we’re pretty health conscious)

 

[skunther]

I

Sorry for the thread drift - but it’s also setting him up for higher risk of numerous problems such as colon cancer, IBS, etc. and there is clear evidence that various autoimmune diseases may be associated with poor gut health. (Fiber is the pre-biotic that is a requirement for a healthy microbiome, and probiotics don’t help if there are inadequate prebiotics for the microbes to feed on).
Again, sorry for this off topic post but getting enough fiber is essential for good health, and most people don’t seem to know this. Most Americans are fiber-deficient.

I agree and we are on board with this. Both my wife and I are very active and health conscious, and only eat meat a few times a week. Our diets are very high fiber, and the issue I’m having happens even with very soft poops.

 

[skunther]

Clogs don't necessarily fill the toilet discharge line completely...pumping the toilet is pulling air in from the tank.

Fwiw, solid waste is 75% water, so it dissolves very quickly in water. so most clogs will dissolve on their own in about an hour. The ones that don't are usually something that shouldn't have been flushed.

--Peggie

So is it likely a clogged discharge line? It only occurs while poop is in the bowl, not after its cleared the bowl. We don’t put anything we haven’t eaten in the toilet. TP goes in the trash bin. Plenty fiber, soft poops. If the discharge line were clogged, wouldn’t it happen even when the bowl is clear? (This never happens).
My gut (sorry) tells me the flapper valve is getting blocked by poop (regardless of hardness) and results in the down stroke pushing effluence back into the bowl (less resistance) rather than through the joker valve (greater resistance). The messy question is where the air bubbles come into the picture. It seems to me they are not coming from any point downstream of the joker valve. Their source could indicate the problem. Worn piston ring allowing air blowby with the upstroke? Worn piston ring would result in less negative pressure to suck effluence past flapper valve too. Then the downstroke could push the air (which entered the piston via worn piston ring) back into the bowl.
The piston ring seemed fine on last inspection, and the toilet has otherwise flushed fine, with the piston ring seeming to function fine, but what the heck?
And I should have mentioned this before, but I changed to a 3 point Jabsco joker valve because I had heard they work better than the Raritan joker valves. Maybe the Jabsco one is tighter and results in more back pressure against the pump?

 

[skunther]

Clogs don't necessarily fill the toilet discharge line completely...pumping the toilet is pulling air in from the tank.

--Peggie

Isn’t there a long enough run that the space in the line immediately downstream from the joker valve would be liquid, not air?

 

[Hayden Watson]

Have you tried a pump rebuild kit? My LH acted that way and it was because of a bad piston seal. I did a full rebuild kit and it works good as new.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

It's time you had a chat with Raritan tech support...and I'm gonna send you to my go-to-tech, Mac McCoy...he's been with Raritan for 20+ years and is their senior tech. CALL him, don't email him ..he gets so many he may not reply for a week or even longer. 800-352-5630 x6.

--Peggie

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Isn’t there a long enough run that the space in the line immediately downstream from the joker valve would be liquid, not air?

Only immediately after a flush unless a) it's an uphill run to the tank...and/ or b)you aren't flushing long enough to move bowl contents all the way to the tank, leaving the discharge line full of water (and possibly waste too). Using the dry mode to do more than just empty the last of the water from the bowl will prevent filling up the holding tank with flush water.

And I just discovered that I need to correct something I said in post #4: Water should be added to the bowl ahead of a solid waste DEPOSIT, instead of ahead of the flush. Think about toilets on land...their bowls are always about 1/3 to 1/2 full of water, without which TP and/or solid waste would stick to the bowl instead of flushing. Same is true of marine toilets, making it necessary to add water manually to most of 'em ahead of solids and/or TP.
Sorry for any confusion I created in post #4.

--Peggie

 

[skunther]

It's time you had a chat with Raritan tech support...and I'm gonna send you to my go-to-tech, Mac McCoy...he's been with Raritan for 20+ years and is their senior tech. CALL him, don't email him ..he gets so many he may not reply for a week or even longer. 800-352-5630 x6.

--Peggie

Thank you!

 

[Hayden Watson]

Thank you!

Peggy's special friends are extremely helpful. She put me in touch with a Master Guru for the Groco HF head and he was able to help me solve all my problems.
Thank Peggy!

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

My "special friends" are the tech support gurus at the equipment mfrs. Theyve taught me most of what I know and I rely on them to help boat owners with problems for which I don't have the answer yet.

--Peggie