Okay, so my black water tank was full. I went to the dockside pump out and read the instructions. All was going great until I noticed my head was overflowing. I had to use manual pump to drain into sink twice. It looked like clean fresh water. This is my first boat, so a step by step would be nice. Thanks, JB
Head floods when using pump out???
- Thread starter Bigjer40
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Sounds like the tank vent was clogged and the suction pulled water from the raw water side of your head
One of the things I do when pumping out is pour a couple buckets of fresh water through the head and let it get pumped out at the end. Like a fresh water rinse. Then I "prime" the system with a bottle of blue in a bucket of water, poured through the head with a few pumps to rinse it down.
As to your issue....you could turn off the fresh water intake...the seacock or however yours works....and see how that affects the pump out. Does it quit pumping? Does the tank start to buckle? Go from there...maybe the vacuum will unclog the vent if that is the issue...not likely, but you never know.
As to your issue....you could turn off the fresh water intake...the seacock or however yours works....and see how that affects the pump out. Does it quit pumping? Does the tank start to buckle? Go from there...maybe the vacuum will unclog the vent if that is the issue...not likely, but you never know.
As an interim solution you can also loosen the cap on the holding tank. It isn't a proper fix but it will let you pump out without flooding your head.
I don't get it. Why would an open seacock and clogged vent cause water to overflow the bowl? The toilet acts as a break so all would happen is air getting sucked down the bowl.
Unless you have a Lavac and the lid is shut but then again, it would pull water through your toilet not push it up through the bowl.
The only way to figure this out is to know exactly how the plumbing is arranged and exactly what the OP did.
Unless you have a Lavac and the lid is shut but then again, it would pull water through your toilet not push it up through the bowl.
The only way to figure this out is to know exactly how the plumbing is arranged and exactly what the OP did.
It seems the pump out, pump is pulling clean water in through the toilet's hand pump. A vented loop between the toilet's hand pump and the toilet will prevent outside water from being sucked in. Also it will prevent a possible siphon from pulling water into the boat when you are not around. It is a good safety measure.
I did have thru hull open to river water. Should I have closed the valve? I do have a vent between head and black tank. I also have manual pump for overboard waste.Tim R. said:
Check the siphon break on your 'overboard' line from the head/toilet; make sure the small siphon break valve (at the top of the loop) there is not stuck in a closed position. Most are inside a large 'screw off fitting' at the top of the loop.
From your description this is what probably happened (youll have to verify)... the head/bowl had water in it when you started up the pump out device. Vacuum from the pump out device also 'started' flow backwards through the 'head overboard' circuit (probably because the small vacuum break valve is 'stuck' / inoperative). Normally the vacuum on the holding tank and its lines will drain the bowl, but this is also connected to the overboard circuit ... and if enough vacuum develops in the over board loop before the bowl is sucked dry and causes river water to rise and back fill 'over the top' of the loop and before the bowl totally gets sucked/drained ..... overflowing of the bowl began when the pump out was shut down, and backwards flow from the river through the discharge loop continued because the bowl is below the waterline of the boat.
You probably pumped out much more than the capacity of your holding tank -- new boat, so you have no 'point of reference'. ;-)
Strong possibility for this ... so check that vacuum breaker and its 'teeny' valve at the top of the loop --- should be cleaned seasonally to prevent 'backflow'. Keeping the overboard thru-hull closed when pumping out will also prevent this 'back-flow' when pumping out (should be closed and locked anyway when inside the 3 mile limit anyway).
Check/clean the vent valve in the top of the 'over-board' vacuum breaker is my -- 'best guess'. Make sure the overboard valve is closed when pumping out as a 'backup'.
hope this helps.
From your description this is what probably happened (youll have to verify)... the head/bowl had water in it when you started up the pump out device. Vacuum from the pump out device also 'started' flow backwards through the 'head overboard' circuit (probably because the small vacuum break valve is 'stuck' / inoperative). Normally the vacuum on the holding tank and its lines will drain the bowl, but this is also connected to the overboard circuit ... and if enough vacuum develops in the over board loop before the bowl is sucked dry and causes river water to rise and back fill 'over the top' of the loop and before the bowl totally gets sucked/drained ..... overflowing of the bowl began when the pump out was shut down, and backwards flow from the river through the discharge loop continued because the bowl is below the waterline of the boat.
You probably pumped out much more than the capacity of your holding tank -- new boat, so you have no 'point of reference'. ;-)
Strong possibility for this ... so check that vacuum breaker and its 'teeny' valve at the top of the loop --- should be cleaned seasonally to prevent 'backflow'. Keeping the overboard thru-hull closed when pumping out will also prevent this 'back-flow' when pumping out (should be closed and locked anyway when inside the 3 mile limit anyway).
Check/clean the vent valve in the top of the 'over-board' vacuum breaker is my -- 'best guess'. Make sure the overboard valve is closed when pumping out as a 'backup'.
hope this helps.
I will say it again. We can only help you with this by knowing the design of your system. They are not all the same and until you provide it all you will get from the users here is guesses.
This is why I have not posted any possible solution as it may lead you down the wrong and possibly harmful path.
This is why I have not posted any possible solution as it may lead you down the wrong and possibly harmful path.
Thanks Rich! I am replacing the hoses and will most likely replace the loop with vacumn breakers as well. It all looks like OE from 1984. I realize know I should have closed the fresh water thru hull first! You definitely gave me a place to start.RichH said:
I tried to explain the system and apparently didn't do it in a way that allowed you to understand. I figure if I could narrate the system to your satisfaction, I most likely wouldn't need to ask for help in the first place. If you read the replies before you posted, you would have saw plenty of useful and helpful replies that I am grateful for. If you don't want to help, then don't. Like I originally said, this is my first boat and am trying to learn all I can. Some of us newbs are gonna ask questions that you think are stupid or lazy because we don't do the research. Well there are others on here that remember what it's like to be a newb or researched and were led astray. I would rather just ask a group of Hunter owners and sort thru their responses. Isn't this a site to share experience and information? I ain't to proud to beg for answers! Not sure why you even took the time to respond???Tim R. said:
You misread my response as being hostile. I am just trying to give the best answer that I can. But we need more information. If you take the time to trace exactly how your system is setup, the answer may become obvious to you. What are the components? How are they connected? Draw it out and post it here.Bigjer40 said:
As a newbie, you may not realize that your system may have changed since the boat was built. Other Hunter owners may be of no more help then any boat owner if this is the case.
I apologize if you read my response wrong but as a new boat owner, you should be learning all of your boats systems so you can better troubleshoot problems as they occur.
And I did read every response. I never post without reading all responses to any thread.
I suspect that the head hand pump is not fully in the down position. It is a little known fact that this pump has water on both sides of the piston. Raw water from the thru-hull on the top side and "used waste" before it goes into the holding system on the bottom. By placing the handle in the full down position you lock the used waste protion with the piston. This helps seal the head and apply full suction to the tank.
I'm with the others, sounds like a clogged vent.
If there is something broken (piston seal???) you could get a syphon which could explain the symptoms.
I'm with the others, sounds like a clogged vent.
If there is something broken (piston seal???) you could get a syphon which could explain the symptoms.
Or the valve body at the top of the pump has a busted backflow valve. it is just a flapper valve so it could be a piece of goop from the raw water. The back flow valve keeps the raw water from going back into the thru hull as you raise the pump handle.
You did not complain about the head not working though so this is less likely.
You did not complain about the head not working though so this is less likely.
Not to take sides on the BigJer and TimR discussion, but with me being a relative newbie, I find that the only time I take the time to learn a complete system on my boat is when something doesn't work. Otherwise, I would just rather be out sailing! When any system fails, such as this pump out question, that is a perfect time to learn your whole system layout, how it works, and knowing this, its usually much easier to figure out solutions the next time there is a problem. It also helps with understanding some of the answers you get here, which can be technical, so you don't need a cookbook, step by step explanation, and the articles you find in the archives can be more easily understood and helpful.
go to the manufacturer's web site
Go to the web and download the proper instruction first. There are many "creative" PO that have install things in a strange way. They think they are better then the designer of the device.
BTW this doesn't only apply to PO. May be it left the factory like that. I have seen strange stuff on new boats right from the factory.
Go to the web and download the proper instruction first. There are many "creative" PO that have install things in a strange way. They think they are better then the designer of the device.
BTW this doesn't only apply to PO. May be it left the factory like that. I have seen strange stuff on new boats right from the factory.
I agree, that is why I am going to replace all the hoses and valves. I have tackled the diesel, the electrical, and now will start the head. I was just hoping for a simple this is how 99% of marine heads operate. Like the useful tips to have the pump handle in the down position and close the raw water thru hull valve. I will get down to the boat this weekend to get a better idea of the system I have. I thought I posted a pretty decent explanation, but now realize it was not detailed enough. It is hard to write a narrative when you don't know what things are. It's a learning process and what I have learned is to tear it out and take it to my local part store and say "give me a new one of these"! However, I doubt they want me to do that with sewage parts:cussing:
Thanks for all the replies and I didn't intend to sound disrespectful to Tim. I will take all the avice to heart and figure it out. I will be at the boat all weekend and now know a little bit more what I am looking for!
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