I know this forum is on sail trim but I need to get the sail up first. What is the best way to haul the main up on a 336 Hunter with a dutchman faking system. I did sea trials on a boat I will buy on Saturday and it took forever to get the main up. The battens kept getting hung up on the topping lift. Once the sail was up I had to loosen the topping lift to get it out of the way of the main. Is this going to be the norm? Once I finally got everything up, the boat went like a bat-out-of-...well you know what I mean. Thanks, David
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electric winch works well
I would point directly into the wind when raising the main, however, its expensive but an electric winch works really nice!!!!
I would point directly into the wind when raising the main, however, its expensive but an electric winch works really nice!!!!
dutchman system
David, Our C36 has this system. The only thing the dutchman/mono lines need to be tight for is lowering the main. To raise the main: 1)turn boat stright upwind. 2)release the main a bit so the boom will stay in the wind. 3) release the boom vang 4) (optional) loosen the outhaul 5) Raise the main,tighten the outhaul,adjust the vang, falloff down wind in desired direction. Too much of the topping lift will fight the vang, and you won't be able to get your main flat enought in heavier wind. Best of luck, Chris
David, Our C36 has this system. The only thing the dutchman/mono lines need to be tight for is lowering the main. To raise the main: 1)turn boat stright upwind. 2)release the main a bit so the boom will stay in the wind. 3) release the boom vang 4) (optional) loosen the outhaul 5) Raise the main,tighten the outhaul,adjust the vang, falloff down wind in desired direction. Too much of the topping lift will fight the vang, and you won't be able to get your main flat enought in heavier wind. Best of luck, Chris
David: Consider purchasing a Garhauer Rigid Vang, which would enable you to eliminate the topping lift. Whats a few bucks more when your buying a new boat!!!?!! You'd really like the control you'd get with teh rigid vang.
Not That Easy!
I don't think the rigid vang is the be-all end-all fix. It certainly should help so you are sure you are not lifting the boom. On my 336 I have tried or thought of my fixes, but it continues to be a major job to raise the main. For those who say point the boat straight into the wind... you can't. With the dutchman system you need to keep off the wind or the main gets caught behind the dutchman lines as it goes up. I usually lift my topping lift way up so I am sure I am not lifting the boom as I raise the sail, helps a little. The best relief so far is bring the reefing lines through the blocks on the mast prior to raising the main. A little messy with the lines all over the deck, but helps a great deal. The blocks bind at the mast and thr reefing lines can't pass thru. Also, lube the sail track, helps some. Only way I get the monster up is to have someone jump it at the mast as I winch in. If anyone has any other suggestions let me know please. Don
I don't think the rigid vang is the be-all end-all fix. It certainly should help so you are sure you are not lifting the boom. On my 336 I have tried or thought of my fixes, but it continues to be a major job to raise the main. For those who say point the boat straight into the wind... you can't. With the dutchman system you need to keep off the wind or the main gets caught behind the dutchman lines as it goes up. I usually lift my topping lift way up so I am sure I am not lifting the boom as I raise the sail, helps a little. The best relief so far is bring the reefing lines through the blocks on the mast prior to raising the main. A little messy with the lines all over the deck, but helps a great deal. The blocks bind at the mast and thr reefing lines can't pass thru. Also, lube the sail track, helps some. Only way I get the monster up is to have someone jump it at the mast as I winch in. If anyone has any other suggestions let me know please. Don
Heave-Ho
David, I have a fully battened 37.5 with dutchman system and used to have the same problems. A couple of things that have really helped me. 1. 1 never pull the reefing lines through when putting the boat away. If I have used the reefing lines and put the boat away I pull the lines from each end of the boom at the dock so there is plenty of slack in each reefing system before I raise the sail. Yes it leaves extra line around but it can be easily coiled and hung off a sail tie to be dropped when the sail goes up next time. When you pull the lines out by raising the main you are adding 4 lines (2 at each end of the boom) that total around 100 feet through 2 stoppers, 4-180 degree turn blocks inside the boom, 6 sheaves over 90 degrees, 4 sheaves under 90 degrees, and 4 grommets. Many of these blocks and sheaves never see the light of day let alone any lubrication so they are not easy. If you want to see an amazing difference just disconnect the reefing lines and raise the main once. 2. I always lubricate the slides. Many favor McLube but plain old joy squirted into the slides when it gets heavy works wonders and cannot stain the sails. Also lubricate the sheaves you can get to. When you clean the boat clean under the spray shield where the line organizer sheaves are. You will be surprised at the amount of crud that can collect there and that clog the wheels. 3. You cannot remove the topping lift if you use the dutchman system but a solid vang really does help. Also remember that the dutchman is set for tight control lines when the boom is horizontal. The last three feet of halyard will generally raise the end of the boom by a foot or so. That will cause the topping lift to be loose. That will give you enough looseness that you should not have to loosen the lift. Also while the book says that you need to be slightly off of dead head-to-wind when raising, that only applies to that portion of the raising when you are pulling up the bottom 10 feet or so of the sail. The rest of the time the sail is well inside of the topping lift. The last 10 feet or so is also when you will be pulling all those reefing lines through if you pulled them in last time. 4. I always release the vang and loosen the sheet so it has about 3 feet of play on each side. that should get you all the way to the top. If you don't or the wind is really strong and flogging the boom you can keep it tighter but will have to loosen it when you get to the last 10 feet and the boom starts to rise. 5. Don't discount the dutchman system. With a fully battened main it is almost essential to keep the main controlled during raising and especially lowering. I cannot imagine trying to gather all that sail without those control lines keeping it together for me. I can pull my sail to within 2-3 feet of the top by hand and only use the wench to raise it the last few feet. I'm overweight and out of shape but these tricks work for me. They might work for you. Good Luck Les s/v Mutual Fun
David, I have a fully battened 37.5 with dutchman system and used to have the same problems. A couple of things that have really helped me. 1. 1 never pull the reefing lines through when putting the boat away. If I have used the reefing lines and put the boat away I pull the lines from each end of the boom at the dock so there is plenty of slack in each reefing system before I raise the sail. Yes it leaves extra line around but it can be easily coiled and hung off a sail tie to be dropped when the sail goes up next time. When you pull the lines out by raising the main you are adding 4 lines (2 at each end of the boom) that total around 100 feet through 2 stoppers, 4-180 degree turn blocks inside the boom, 6 sheaves over 90 degrees, 4 sheaves under 90 degrees, and 4 grommets. Many of these blocks and sheaves never see the light of day let alone any lubrication so they are not easy. If you want to see an amazing difference just disconnect the reefing lines and raise the main once. 2. I always lubricate the slides. Many favor McLube but plain old joy squirted into the slides when it gets heavy works wonders and cannot stain the sails. Also lubricate the sheaves you can get to. When you clean the boat clean under the spray shield where the line organizer sheaves are. You will be surprised at the amount of crud that can collect there and that clog the wheels. 3. You cannot remove the topping lift if you use the dutchman system but a solid vang really does help. Also remember that the dutchman is set for tight control lines when the boom is horizontal. The last three feet of halyard will generally raise the end of the boom by a foot or so. That will cause the topping lift to be loose. That will give you enough looseness that you should not have to loosen the lift. Also while the book says that you need to be slightly off of dead head-to-wind when raising, that only applies to that portion of the raising when you are pulling up the bottom 10 feet or so of the sail. The rest of the time the sail is well inside of the topping lift. The last 10 feet or so is also when you will be pulling all those reefing lines through if you pulled them in last time. 4. I always release the vang and loosen the sheet so it has about 3 feet of play on each side. that should get you all the way to the top. If you don't or the wind is really strong and flogging the boom you can keep it tighter but will have to loosen it when you get to the last 10 feet and the boom starts to rise. 5. Don't discount the dutchman system. With a fully battened main it is almost essential to keep the main controlled during raising and especially lowering. I cannot imagine trying to gather all that sail without those control lines keeping it together for me. I can pull my sail to within 2-3 feet of the top by hand and only use the wench to raise it the last few feet. I'm overweight and out of shape but these tricks work for me. They might work for you. Good Luck Les s/v Mutual Fun
Raiaing the main is tough
I have a Hunter 376 and also find the main tough to raise. Because of the big roach, I MUST head off the wind and move the traveler to starboard so the dutchman hangs loose on the side the monofilm exits the top of the sail. I keep the toppig lift tight until the sail is all the way up and I haul the main by hand from the cabin top. The last few feet are raised from the cockpit with the winch
I have a Hunter 376 and also find the main tough to raise. Because of the big roach, I MUST head off the wind and move the traveler to starboard so the dutchman hangs loose on the side the monofilm exits the top of the sail. I keep the toppig lift tight until the sail is all the way up and I haul the main by hand from the cabin top. The last few feet are raised from the cockpit with the winch
Three cheers for electric winch
My Hunter 430 has about the most monsterous main of any boat they make. I agree with all that has been said about the Dutchman, lubrication, cleaning tracks and sheaves, etc, but without the electric winch, it would be darn near impossible, and I think it is probably not that much better on a slightly smaller boat. I learned early not to pull the reefing lines through after dousing the main, but to tuck them up in the folds of the flaked sail... That reduces friction enormously. BUT, I've just bitten the bullet and ordered a furling main, in hopes to tame this overcanvased beast. Time will tell if I get what I hope I'm paying for! I'll let ya know
My Hunter 430 has about the most monsterous main of any boat they make. I agree with all that has been said about the Dutchman, lubrication, cleaning tracks and sheaves, etc, but without the electric winch, it would be darn near impossible, and I think it is probably not that much better on a slightly smaller boat. I learned early not to pull the reefing lines through after dousing the main, but to tuck them up in the folds of the flaked sail... That reduces friction enormously. BUT, I've just bitten the bullet and ordered a furling main, in hopes to tame this overcanvased beast. Time will tell if I get what I hope I'm paying for! I'll let ya know
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