Has This Happend to You?

jviss · Aug 13, 2023

That happened to me. The cringle didn't have UV protection fabric over it, as it should have. The sail was otherwise excellently made. The loft that repaired it for me encase the cringle in UV protective fabric so when furled nothing was exposed.

sailcapt340 · Aug 13, 2023

Chain Stitching is my thought. It‘s a technique used by sail makers because it easy and faster. But the results of one stitches becoming unraveled, dry rotted, sun damaged or any number of causes weakens the integrity of the other stitches and they start to pull out. The end result is what you are seeing.
I can’t speak for any sailmaker, but I do know when Ted Hood started his sail making, he was adamant about never using chain stitching. So much so that if he ever saw anyone doing it he would rip out the work and start over.
So if you repair or replace yours make sure your sail maker doesn’t Chain Stitch.

dLj · Aug 13, 2023

Original thread used may not have been highly UV resistant.

It does not look like a substantial cringle also. Only two straps? I think my foresail has five or 6. Maybe more. It's built ina kind is star pattern, if I'm recalling correctly. With two going up the leech, two going along the foot, and several running in angles between the two.there is also reinforcing fabric in the region. I can't image ending up with something looking like that if it were to part company from the sail.

dj

dLj · Aug 13, 2023

Kings Gambit said:
You may have a point, but there is a starburst pattern of I think 4 straps converging along the clew on each side to the two cringle straps.

Interesting. Next time I unroll my foresail, I'm going to look more closely. I think that ring is captured by more straps. But I could be wrong.

My staysail has a very substantial cringle - but it is also my storm sail so isn't a good comparison. It has a metal plate, not a ring, with several holes to use for connecting sheets.

dj

PaulK · Aug 13, 2023

We had the head of a spinnaker blow off once, but we were running in big seas and the sail would collapse when we got in the trough and snap full when we rose on the crests. A few hours of that in 20 knots of breeze will tire out a sail quickly.

jon hansen · Aug 13, 2023

so the discussion really might be, 'how often should we have our sails serviced'.

taken into our sailmaker and have them inspect and repair our sails.
how hard do you really push your vessel. how often do you sail. are your sails 100% covered when not sailing.

me, i take my sails, main and 3 jibs, that are used the most, in for an inspection every 12 months. which in my sailing area means every three years. i have different sails on different rotation. my jibs are hanked on, so the are bagged and stored below between sails. during our season we hope to sail every day, but prolly just 5 days a week.

the lighter big jennys take the most abuse from the overlap aft. they can be taken in after every season if need be.. they're tape drive racing sails. they can ware. we use them daily, cause they sure do pull hard. i don't sail dacron any more. i fell in love with no stretch sails. they are more maintenance.

roller jibs, in the sun, 24/7, prolly loft checked every 12 months.

just my $0.02

what say you?

i don't have , one size fits all jibs. my 155% is rated to 18mph, my 140% jib is rated to 28 mph, my 100% jib is rated to 60 mph. well, that's the claim.

i've blown up two 3/4oz spinnakers. i have an old 11/2oz spinnaker that we have sailed in huge blows while racing and wild hair days that is still looking good. 'BIG BLUE'.

old CCA heavy hulls need tons of power to get cranking. "MORE SAIL"

oh yeah, blew up a heavy 155% too. the spinnakers from wind. the jib from water from the bow wave. all 3 by getting slammed by huge thunderstorms while racing. heavy boats need to push hard in big winds to try and be competitive, i think. doesn't always work out well.

my jennys are 'deck sweepers' so they take abuse from the fence as well.

JBP-PA · Aug 14, 2023

It's not unusual at all to have the thread fail. Especially on roller furlers where some thread is always exposed. As people have said, often the thread is not as UV resistant. The threads are also subject to chafe and stress. Inspect your sails at lest once a year. You can take them in but is is very easy to do this yourself. Stitching that is about to fail can be fixed pretty easily. Again you can have a shop do it, but is is also pretty easy to do yourself. If you live where winter stops you from sailing, that is an excellent time to inspect and repair your sails. Assuming the admiral will let you sew sails while the rest of the crew watches TV after dinner.

dLj · Aug 14, 2023

JBP-PA said:
It's not unusual at all to have the thread fail. Especially on roller furlers where some thread is always exposed. As people have said, often the thread is not as UV resistant. The threads are also subject to chafe and stress. Inspect your sails at lest once a year. You can take them in but is is very easy to do this yourself. Stitching that is about to fail can be fixed pretty easily. Again you can have a shop do it, but is is also pretty easy to do yourself. If you live where winter stops you from sailing, that is an excellent time to inspect and repair your sails. Assuming the admiral will let you sew sails while the rest of the crew watches TV after dinner.

Yes, but having a sewing machine capable of this kind of heavy duty sewing is required.

dj

jviss · Aug 14, 2023

dLj said:
Yes, but having a sewing machine capable of this kind of heavy duty sewing is required.

dj

I have a Chinese heavy duty walking foot machine, same as the Sailrite machine is based on, but mine doesn't zig-zag. But, I also have a 1960's vintage Singer 503a "Rocketeer" that's all mechanical, does lots of different stitches, and I bet it's tough enough for sails. It also has two-needle capability. I might try it.

DRhoads · Aug 14, 2023

After inspection each winter I wrap the last part all the way to the connection to the furler with chafing tape. blocks the UV and helps with an chaffing.

quadrille38 · Aug 14, 2023

jon hansen said:
so the discussion really might be, 'how often should we have our sails serviced'.

taken into our sailmaker and have them inspect and repair our sails.
how hard do you really push your vessel. how often do you sail. are your sails 100% covered when not sailing.

me, i take my sails, main and 3 jibs, that are used the most, in for an inspection every 12 months. which in my sailing area means every three years. i have different sails on different rotation. my jibs are hanked on, so the are bagged and stored below between sails. during our season we hope to sail every day, but prolly just 5 days a week.

the lighter big jennys take the most abuse from the overlap aft. they can be taken in after every season if need be.. they're tape drive racing sails. they can ware. we use them daily, cause they sure do pull hard. i don't sail dacron any more. i fell in love with no stretch sails. they are more maintenance.

roller jibs, in the sun, 24/7, prolly loft checked every 12 months.

just my $0.02

what say you?

i don't have , one size fits all jibs. my 155% is rated to 18mph, my 140% jib is rated to 28 mph, my 100% jib is rated to 60 mph. well, that's the claim.

i've blown up two 3/4oz spinnakers. i have an old 11/2oz spinnaker that we have sailed in huge blows while racing and wild hair days that is still looking good. 'BIG BLUE'.

old CCA heavy hulls need tons of power to get cranking. "MORE SAIL"

oh yeah, blew up a heavy 155% too. the spinnakers from wind. the jib from water from the bow wave. all 3 by getting slammed by huge thunderstorms while racing. heavy boats need to push hard in big winds to try and be competitive, i think. doesn't always work out well.

my jennys are 'deck sweepers' so they take abuse from the fence as well.

I’m with you. I take my sails in to loft every other year. They clean and inspect them. Repair stiching, replace straps, anything else that needs repair. Saved me from a nasty situation a few years ago. The strap at the top of the furling main was weathering and becoming frayed. Had it frayed through and sails dropped inside the mast the jam would have been a mess and possibly dangerous.

kappykaplan · Aug 15, 2023

I have my sails inspected/repaired/washed annually.

jssailem · Aug 15, 2023

JBP-PA said:
It's not unusual at all to have the thread fail.

That’s what the damage appears to be in the image.

It seems inefficient not to leave your sails up all season. I disagree. Inefficient is not having your sails when you want to go sailing. I’m on a three year plan for the loft. That is unless I go for a long cruise and experience heavy winds. Then we may go in early as an ounce of prevention. I prefer to store my sails in the boat not on the furler or boom during the long winter months. If I get to go winter sailing I just open the bag of a crisp dry sail and hoist them in place. It is a little work but sails are protected from the elements that try to destroy them.

jibes138 · Aug 15, 2023

I’ve made several sails, here’s a few observations. The underside of the straps are a massive rats nest of bad stitching. The top sides look like nice jig zag stitches but the bottom is a mess.
You see the way the strap angles so one side is along the leech the other along the foot, there should be another strap going the other way so the sail is “sandwiched” between two straps. Then there should be a third strap bisecting the angle of the clew up the middle of the sail.
A clew typically has the sail fabric, five sheets of additional fabric that strengthens the clew, two layers of straps, and a sun cover to sew through. This is nine layers of material so a very hefty sewing machine is required. On top of machine stitching the ring should further be hand stitched with heavy thread using a sewing awl to the sail before adding the straps.
Thread comes in many sizes and materials, some is UV resistant and others not so much. The right thread for the job is also important. V69 polyester thread used on canvas and exposed will last about five years then it tears apart like tissue paper. You can get thread that won’t rot like that but it is very expensive.
Im sure Sailrite has instruction information on assembling the clew, tack etc. check their website for the latest and greatest.
many sailmakers geared towards racing try to minimize weight and thus make things less robust. They assume racing sails will be replaced more often and inspected a lot more. Cruising sailors are more interested in strong and tough and long lasting. It’s important to specify what you want.

jibes138 · Aug 15, 2023

Looks like Sailrite moved all their instruction stuff to YouTube or I am too incompetent to find it on their website. YouTube has a good video on repairing a clew like yours. If you do it yourself you can buy the equipment you need with what you save on having someone else do it. If the clew is shot I’d take a look at the head and tack as well, new stitching might be needed there also.
A Speedy Stitcher Sewing Awl is a tool I highly recommend! Fairly inexpensive and makes the hand stitching of the corner ring much easier. It sews lock stitches just like a sewing machine but with very heavy thread.

jviss · Aug 15, 2023

Highly recommended book: The Sailmaker's Apprentice, Brion Toss.

capta · Aug 15, 2023

We lost the head of our Yankee just a few miles short of Tyrrel Bay coming up from Grenada on a charter. That's when I found out Skipping Stone wasn't very good @ going to weather on the main alone. Or, that particular evening, the engine.The sail had begun to come down the foil so we rolled it up. With no engine and making no headway on main alone, I unrolled the Yankee a bit and we limped into Tyrrel and I spent most of the night sewing the sail back together. We never did get the engine running (starter problem) so we finished the charter under sail. Fortunately, our guests were newly wed, so they hardly noticed. lol

Has This Happend to You?

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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