Has anyone used PVC board for hand rails?

kito

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Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
I removed my cabin top teak hand rails from my H30 yesterday thinking I could save them. 35 years has took it's toll and are toast. I will be using them for a template to make new ones from Starboard but looks fairly pricey plus not sure it comes in 10 foot lengths (I need 113"). I seen pvc boards at Lowes that come in up to 12 foot lengths. They say it's machinable and paintable. I am sure it's not as good as Starboard but should be ok for hand rails. If left unpainted, it will most likely turn chalky and brittle. I was going to paint them black anyway. Just wondering if anyone did the same and would like your thoughts. I am talking only $35 for both 10' handrails versus at least 4x that for teak or Starboard.
 

Bob J.

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Apr 14, 2009
773
Sabre 28 NH
There was an article about using composite lumber/Trek? Decking for handholds a couple of years ago in GOB. Might be worth checking out.

Bob
 
Nov 19, 2011
1,489
MacGregor 26S Hampton, VA
I have a friend who used it and he has nothing but praises to offer. He ripped it to the width he needed and routered it to have rounded edges and used it where the old wood gunwale cap was al the way around his 38 foot ketch.
 
Feb 20, 2011
7,993
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
There are a few options in composite plastic lumber from which to fabricate your handholds.
I'd recommend using a structural grade, through-bolted, of course, if you're going to depend on them.
 
Apr 2, 2007
29
-Catalina C-36 Hull 1041 & Marshall 18 Catboat - W2CWL Punta Gorda, FL
I used a solid core decking material for hand rails on an older boat and was pleased with the finished product. The decking material I chose was grey on color (my choice to better match the boat color) and made by 'Certain-Teed' Inc. Look carefully at the offered products as some are less dense than others. You want as dense as you can get. If you go to a good lumber yard - rather than Home Depot or Lowes, you might find a wider selection of products.
The lumber yard also ripped mine down for a very small fee. The rest I did on a band saw. It does leave an edge on the square lumber that needs to be rounded off.

I would not use Starboard because of the expense (it is expensive) and you can not paint it, therefore, it will remain white. It works for a 'loop' or two but not beyond that.

There are several companies that make ready made hand rails out of the this product such as Plasteak see; http://www.plasteak.com/ and depending on your requirements, it just might be cheaper to buy it from them. The product is some what flexible and able to meet the contours of your boat plus it is a molded product and the problem of smoothing the edges is eliminated.
Fair winds,
Bill
 

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
I used...



.... the stuff above to make ladder steps for the Mac a few years back. I think I got it for Lowes or Home Depot but could of got it shipped in via UPS (edit: I got it online but can't find out from whom). I have the mod documented....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/outside-30.html

... but never finished the written part of the documentation :redface::cry:.

The boat is outside all of the time and ....



... it still pretty much looks like it did when I finished it in the picture above. Been very happy with it and would use it again.



I used the spar urethane above on it and although it isn't quite as shiny it never peeled or discolored. I'm getting ready to take the boat to Florida again and won't refinish the steps as they look good enough for me,

Sumner

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Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links
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kito

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Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
Thanks for all the info guys. I just got back from Lowes and looked at their composite decking boards. I decided to try their white 1" thick pvc board and see how it goes. They wouldn't rip my 10' long board though. I guess it can gunk up their blades. I will try ripping it on my table saw. Seems like it needs to be cut fast before the heat builds up. $39 for a board I can get 2 120" hand rails out of. It says it cuts and mills like wood so curious how it does routing the edges.
 

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
..... Seems like it needs to be cut fast before the heat builds up. .......... It says it cuts and mills like wood so curious how it does routing the edges.
Yes I think that is the key, cut fast or turn the rpm up if you are using something like a mill where that is an option.

I forgot that I got some of the stuff you just did and....



... used it in the bilge to attach the 3 bilge pumps to in the Endeavour (2 of the 3 shown above). Won't rot :),

Sumner

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================

Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links
[/FONT]
 
Oct 26, 2005
2,057
- - Satellite Beach, FL.
I replaced all my trim with 100% PVC AZEK deck lumber.
I had researched the options and found that the "composites" used pulp wood which would mildew and rot, sometimes causing failure.
Had to order the AZEK from a local deck lumber store and paid about $180, including shipping for enough to do everything plus some for mistakes.
 

Attachments

Sep 20, 2014
1,320
Rob Legg RL24 Chain O'Lakes
I used that for my hatch boards and had no problem cutting it or routing the edges. However I would suggest if you have a good lumber store that sells high quality hardwoods, you should be able to order 1 piece of Brazillion Teak intended to be used for decking. Since it is decking boards, they are thicker than the typical grab handles, however once installed, you could probably use them to hoist your boat. They are also a bit nicer as when you grab on to them, you are grabing something solid. You should be able to buy one board for around 70 or 80 bucks, which should be all you need for 2 rails. Here is the ones I built for my boat.

Use contact paper to outline your pattern. Cut it with a jigsaw to get it close.

Then just sand it to your lines. This wood is very tough so it takes a little to sand.

Then use a router to round off the edges, so it is comfortable on your hands. Its one inch thick, so it is incredibly solid.
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,076
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Azek ...

I replaced all my trim with 100% PVC AZEK deck lumber.
I had researched the options and found that the "composites" used pulp wood which would mildew and rot, sometimes causing failure.
Had to order the AZEK from a local deck lumber store and paid about $180, including shipping for enough to do everything plus some for mistakes.
I don't think it's a good idea to try the Timbertech or Trex "composite" products for this application for the reason that merlinuxo just said.

The Azek could be a good choice but there are some compromises that you should be aware of. If you want the deck product with the wood grain, you'll only get the wood grain on one side and the edges. The back side is shiny. So for a handrail, you'll have 2 different surfaces; plus, when you cut or shape the edges, you will have a third texture on the edges, which isn't exactly smooth and it also doesn't resemble wood.

I used Azek for the rails of the coach roof and hatch board and am moderately pleased with the look (but I'm not that picky). That's because the shiny surface and the shaped surfaces are basically out of view. The wood grain that is exposed doesn't look too bad, but I found that compounding material and wax doesn't come off easily so I already have some whitish stains that I live with. (The rosewood color that I chose does look very nice, but it is dull ... not like varnished or oiled wood).

I'm happy with my application and I would use it the same way Sumner did for his ladder steps (actually a very nice application!). But I thought about using it for the hand rails and decided against it. One thing that shows up when you shape the boards are little voids that are inside the product. When you shape the material, it is hit or miss with regard to exposing these voids. They are not like bubbles, but more like long thin slits in the interior (about the thickness of a playing card). You definitely don't want them exposed on the top edge; although, I suppose you can fill them with something. Mostly, I didn't accept the look of the shaped edge and the shiny backside surface. You should know that Azek can be shaped like wood, but these products are intended to be used in the dimension they come in, only with end cuts or miter cuts, because the cut surfaces don't resemble the finished surfaces. It's not like wood in this regard, where all cuts can be made to look beautiful.

Also, Lowes refuses to cut, not because of the blades, it's because the product is expensive and they don't want customers coming back with boards that didn't fit and blaming it on Lowes. I had the same issue because I bought 12' lengths and didn't want to have them flopping on the top of the car on the way home. The customer service people said 'no way' but when I went in the back, a nice young guy listened to my explanation (he told me why they typically don't cut) and cut them to the length dimension that I needed to fit inside the car (basically in half). I doubt they would rip it for you, because of the concern expressed above.

I thought that I would live with the rails for a season or 2 before deciding if I want to replace handrails with plasteak or real teak. I decided to refinish the old ones for the time being.
 

kito

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Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
My Lowes had 2 different brands of pvc board. One was heavily textured with wood grain on one side and the other was smoother on both sides. I didn't get the wood grain one since I was going to route the edges and would look funny. I plan on making a template for my router to cut out the hand holds. May take 2 or 3 passes to get through 1" of pvc without melting it.
 
Sep 20, 2014
1,320
Rob Legg RL24 Chain O'Lakes
I should mention something else, while I was trying to conserve wood, so I overlapped the one handle against the other. If your board is wide enough, before you rip it, take a hole saw that matches the round part of the handle. Lay your pattern out so the handles are opposing each other with the handle part to the outside. Then take your hole saw and drill out the round part. When you go to rip it, you are going to cut each circle in half and will only be ripping small short sections in between each hole. The short sections should be small enough that they won't create much heat to the blade.

Also a sharp well balanced blade should not get hot no matter how long it sits in the material. If it is burning, you have vibration in your saw.
 
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
When using the alternative materials for the hand rails, are plugs available for the screw holes? Do you attach in the same fashion: through-bolted from the top?

Thanks,
Andrew
 

kito

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Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
My original teak rails were not through bolted and was pretty solid. My coach roof is fairly thick though......about an inch. I am drilling out the original holes and plugging them with resin. I plan on shifting my new rails a bit to create new holes. Not sure why through bolting is required just because it's pvc. If it's going to break, it will whether through bolted or blind bolted with bronze wood screws. As far as screw plugs, I am thinking my plug cutter will work on the scrap pvc I will have left over.
 
Sep 20, 2014
1,320
Rob Legg RL24 Chain O'Lakes
My original teak rails were not through bolted and was pretty solid. My coach roof is fairly thick though......about an inch. I am drilling out the original holes and plugging them with resin. I plan on shifting my new rails a bit to create new holes. Not sure why through bolting is required just because it's pvc. If it's going to break, it will whether through bolted or blind bolted with bronze wood screws. As far as screw plugs, I am thinking my plug cutter will work on the scrap pvc I will have left over.
Teak is tons stronger than plastics, especially if the plastic has wood filler in it. Drilling all the way through the handle would be wiser, as it would be much less prone to loosening up. Generally speaking, plastic is not as rigid as wood, (which is why it is never structural) Because plastic bends, it flexes around the screws, which will make it work loose. Capturing it by through bolting is going to be much less likely to come apart. The only other option I would consider would be melting inserts and then threading into the insert. You can take a soldering iron and heat the insert to drive it into place. Each insert has a spec as to what size hole should be drilled for rated strength. Brass inserts can be easily purchased online in small quantities. I work in plastics, while we ultrasonically melt them into place, using heat is also commercially acceptable, its just a little slower. When the machines break, I have seen commercial products assembled using soldering guns, it is a legit way to do it as far as strength goes.
 
Oct 26, 2005
2,057
- - Satellite Beach, FL.
When using the alternative materials for the hand rails, are plugs available for the screw holes? Do you attach in the same fashion: through-bolted from the top?

Thanks,
Andrew
I made plugs with a regular plug cutter like Kirk mentioned. First I ripped the scrap to the thickness I wanted and glued them in with a fab of silicon.
Another Morgan 24 guy just through bolted without plugs and it's much simpler and looks fine. If I do this again that's probably what I'll do.
 
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
My Oday has plastic risers on which a straight, teak strip is attached. This greatly simplifies the design. Seems it would be easy to create some simple risers of plastic or stainless; then, only the strip would need to be replaced. Of course, that may be more trouble than it is worth considering the rails apparently last 30 years!

Thanks,

Andrew
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
My original teak rails were not through bolted and was pretty solid. My coach roof is fairly thick though......about an inch. I am drilling out the original holes and plugging them with resin. I plan on shifting my new rails a bit to create new holes. Not sure why through bolting is required just because it's pvc. If it's going to break, it will whether through bolted or blind bolted with bronze wood screws. As far as screw plugs, I am thinking my plug cutter will work on the scrap pvc I will have left over.
Kito how thick is your fiberglass.....if you use screws to fasten with you run the risk of the screws wallowing out in the holes over time from stress.... if you through bolt you have toggled it to both outside and inside of the cabin top and gained 10 to 20 times the holding strength and enhanced the sheer strength "your boat your choice" as has been said by some on here ...just something to think about