Has anyone replaced the "Grease Cup" on their water pump?

[jrowan]

Hello all,
I decided to do some more spring maintenance chores today, and after changing the oil I read through the manual on my 5411 Universal which stated to "turn the grease cup 1/2 turn on the water pump to lubricate the shaft" on the water pump. Well, the little grease cup on my 1980 Oberdorfer type pump is now 30 years old, & when turning it 1/2 a turn I must have loosened up whatever rust was still holding this thing on. Now the "cup" which is the size of your thumbnail is now quite loose and starting to drip water. Has anyone tried to replace one of these "lube cups", or am I sh@# out of luck getting parts for a 30 year old pump? I replaced the impeller on it less than a year ago & up till now it has pumped fine. Even if I can get the part, I wonder if the threading is gone. Maybe its time to bite the bullet & buy a new pump all together. I just wonder how tough it will be to get the pump retaining bolts off after being frozen on the block for 30 years! There needs to be a maintenance manual revision, "do not turn this lube cup if your pump is 30+ years old & past its prime, or you'll next state WTF!"

 

[Team118]

http://www.moyermarine.com/cgi-bin/...all&template=Templates/B000_storebuilder.html

Here is the site for the cup, the rebuild kit or the whole darn pump!

If the cup threading didn't break apart in the pump, you should be just fine!

It's funny, I just took my pump off this morning to replace the gaskets and I cleaned out the grease cup.

Good luck
Chris

 

[jrowan]

Re: Has anyone replaced the "Grease Cup" on their water pump

Thanks mate. I'll check out Moyer. I always prefer to use original equipment rebuilds whenever I can as I know the parts will fit, and it saves some $$ on my money pit. Someone reminded me today what BOAT stands for: Break Out Another Thousand!

 

[Running Late]

Did this a couple of weeks ago as well-

Noted my 5 year old oberdorfer pump had begun to leak water out of weep holes so bit the bullet and removed pump from engine block to rebuild (having never done this before was pleasantly surprised that it is actually very easy to do).

When I took it apart, it was immediately apparent no grease was coming out of the opening despite multiple turns and grease cup seemingly filled (in effect, the grease cup is a simple grease fitting) -ultimately, was a blocked aperature and inadequate fill by installer (not me) that meant no grease to shaft and ultimately a scored/worn shaft that I replaced.

The grease cup itself is easily removed (a screw in/out fitting)-even if it breaks off, should be (relatively) simple to remove rest of the piece.

Lesson from all this-it is worth removing the pump, pulling the shaft and confirm grease is being extruded when you turn the cap.

In addition to Moyer (where I got most of my parts for this one), Torrenson and Catalina Direct have replacement parts as well.

Good Luck-

Chris

 

[rbmcintire]

From the Moyer site:
Product No. - CSOB_01_62

Oberdorfer water pump N202M7 (water pump flange gasket included)

"The back plate on the Oberdorfer N202M7 pump is sealed to the main part of the housing by an o-ring, instead of the thin back plate gasket that was used in earlier 202M7 models. The o-ring is installed in a groove within the rear face of the new pump housing, very close to the outside edge of the impeller chamber.

The bolt pattern in the back plate of the new N202M7 pump is dimensioned slightly differently from the back plates of the original 202M7 models, so the back plates are not interchangeable between the two models of pumps. "



The bolt patterns were slightly different on my '84 M-25. In my case, I had some kind of adapter plate between the pump and the engine. I took my original pump off, made a bolt hole template out of cereal box cardboard and carefully transferred the hole pattern to the new pump's back plate. Center punch the bronze and drilled the new holes. It's close enough. There's enough play between the pump's shaft, and the engine's slot that it goes into, that it just works. Measure twice, etc. etc. etc.

Rob

 

[jrowan]

Re: Has anyone replaced the "Grease Cup" on their water pump

Thanks for the replies. I am ordering the lube cup, since I can get it from Moyer for less then 30 bucks, its worth the try. But I'm a little wary about whether the threaded connection will still be watertight. Looking at the new Oberdorfer pump design, it seems much more reliable as it does away with the lube fitting, since it has sealed bearings. Although since the original pump has lasted for 32 years, its proven to be a venerable design. I did notice that Catalina Direct's pump is half the price of Torrenson, who seems to be twice the price of everybody else online.

 

[rbmcintire]

jrowan,

Here is a photo that shows the adaptor plate/ old pump and the new pump Actually, my memory was inaccurate. I drilled two holes to fit the new pump up. I got mine from Catalina Direct, we had a three-way call with their supplier and the guy said, "sure, I know just what one you need". When it arrived, I noted the hole pattern issue. All the mechanically knowledgeable people I talked to said, there wasn't anything else to do, but to drill it. Fits fine/ runs quiet/ no weird vibration/ no overheating. Mine was leaking out of the weep hole and my experience is limited to exactly one water pump changeout, but I would go for a new pump.

Rob

 

[jrowan]

Re: Has anyone replaced the "Grease Cup" on their water pump

Thanks for the great pics Rob,
I notice that your pump is mounted upside down compared to mine. But having the oil cup higher makes more sense. Did you have a hard time removing the 90 degree elbow fittings from the old pump to reuse them? I wondered if the fittings would be fused onto the old pump body. I'm assuming that you rebuilt your diesel since it looks like it was on a bench? Cheers, J.R.

 

[rbmcintire]

jr, I got the fittings out with not too much effort. Surprisingly, the engine came out fairly straight forward, too. I was full tilt into the bilge/post support plywood issue last winter, along with repairing the smile on the outside of the hull, so I didn't get to rebuild. Maybe one day. Here's a picture of my "bench". It was necessary to get at that last keelbolt. I did replace the motor mounts, the exhaust pipe, fabbed a bracket for the heat exchanger, and all new hoses, (plus a few other things). We didn't splash until July 1, but it was all worth it. New standing rigging, properly tuned, on a new solid keel base with a completely fresh bottom, the boat drove like a dream. Can't wait to get out there this year.

Rob

 

[Bob S]

You guys got me thinking because I changed my Sherwood to the Oberdorfer M202M-15 pump 2 seasons ago and it didn't have the grease fitting/cup? It also had an extra hole and mounted with no problem and no drilling? I bought it locally at Associated Diesel, Boston where I got this picture: http://www.adiesel.com/store/OB-N202M-15.html

I also buy Baldwin oil and fuel filters for my M25. I wonder if this will not last as long without that feature. They show the grease fitting on pumps for the Atomic 4???

Dah! I guess I have a different pump judging from the male shaft vs female you show. My mistake.
http://www.adiesel.com/oberdorfer.html

 

[rbmcintire]

Bob, you must have the M-25XP. Here is the Oberdorfer spec:

http://www.oberdorfer-pumps.com/html/NEWSPECSHEETS.htm#6RubberImpeller

The N202M Series, the -07 and -015 have the same GPM. Shaft style, as you point out, is very relevent. The table shows that the -03 pushes less GPM, so I didn't go with that. The 5411 appears to require the -07 according to Oberdorfer's chart on page 2. The -07 in our M-25 with a 3" heat exchanger and after much (much) air venting, runs no more than 180deg all summer long here in the Ches. Bay.

Rob

 

[jrowan]

Re: Has anyone replaced the "Grease Cup" on their water pump

Bob, You have the newer & better designed Oberdorfer pump. It has sealed bearings that don't require lubrication. As U have read the little grease cup doesn't really work very well & is more trouble then it is worth. Capt. Ron stated that he replaced his Sherwood with an Oberdorfer as well because it is more reliable. Considering that mine is a 1980, I really cannot doubt how tough these lil pumps are.