I have a 1977 catalina 22 and I just restored her. I up graded from a com-pac 16 and miss her dearly, but the space was to tight so the catalina 22 made perfect sense. I sail on the indian river off the ICW in melbourne. The water is very shallow in many spots, verrying from 6 ft to 2 ft and I would like to beach her on many of the small islands for camping. The com-pac did very well at this because it only drew 16 inches. Tha catalina draws 2 feet with keel up and 5 feet with keel down. MY MAIN POINT FOR ASKING IS BECAUSE WHEN THE CATALINA KEEL IS UP IT STILL SHOWS 85% OF KEEL AND RESEMBLES A SHOAL DRAFT KEEL, UNLIKE A MACGREGOR WITCH HIDES ALL OF THE KEEL WHEN IN UP POSITION AND DOES NOT SEEM AS STABLE. This fact makes me think that I could sail the boat in pretty good wind with keel up and keel half way down or all the way down in really high winds. Please and thank you for all and any help or knowledge on this topic of sailing a catalina 22 with her keel up.
Has anybody sailed a catalina 22 with the keel up?
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Catalina keel
I restored a 1971 O'Day 23 with a centerboard. Draft was 2' with the board up and 6' with the board down. When the board was up, it was completely enclosed in the iron keel, and the keel extended about 18'' below the hull. She sailed fine downwind with the board up, and had less drag. She'd sail good on a broad reach with the board halfway, and of course, she'd sail well to weather with the board all the way down. At times, though, I'd sail her on all points with the board down, for stability, if there wasn't enough wind to hold her steady.
I sailed her mostly in Nantucket Sound, and the beauty of the centerboard was that it would swing up when I sailed over a shoal, sort of what happens to all of us that sail here on the Florida coasts.
The main thing is, experiment and have fun. You've got a great boat for where you'll be sailing.
I restored a 1971 O'Day 23 with a centerboard. Draft was 2' with the board up and 6' with the board down. When the board was up, it was completely enclosed in the iron keel, and the keel extended about 18'' below the hull. She sailed fine downwind with the board up, and had less drag. She'd sail good on a broad reach with the board halfway, and of course, she'd sail well to weather with the board all the way down. At times, though, I'd sail her on all points with the board down, for stability, if there wasn't enough wind to hold her steady.
I sailed her mostly in Nantucket Sound, and the beauty of the centerboard was that it would swing up when I sailed over a shoal, sort of what happens to all of us that sail here on the Florida coasts.
The main thing is, experiment and have fun. You've got a great boat for where you'll be sailing.
Tom is on the money. I have a '78 C22. We call it "sail by braille". When cutting too close on the shoal, just crank it up, bear off, and keep going! Even with the keel up, you don't want to beach it. It WILL dig in and be either impossible or almost so to free. Spent an extra night alone on Cat Island last year to prove it! I shortened my anchor rode early that am to get on the beach, and the tide went out... Well, it was high tide that night around midnight. So, good thing I always take extra food and beer!
Catalina keel
I restored a 1971 O'Day 23 with a centerboard. Draft with the board up was 2', with the board down, 6'. The board was completely enclosed in the iron keel when it was up, and the keel extended about 18'' below the hull.
She'd sail great downwind with the board up, less drag. She'd do well on a broad reach with the board halfway, and, of course, she'd sail good to weather with the board all the way down. At times, I'd sail with the board
down on all points of sail, if there wasn't enough wind to hold her steady.
I used to sail mostly on Nantucket Sound, and the beauty of the centerboard was that it would just swing up when I sailed over a shoal, sort of the way it is here for those of us that sail the Florida coasts.
The main thing is, experiment and have fun. You've got a great boat for where you'll be sailing.
I restored a 1971 O'Day 23 with a centerboard. Draft with the board up was 2', with the board down, 6'. The board was completely enclosed in the iron keel when it was up, and the keel extended about 18'' below the hull.
She'd sail great downwind with the board up, less drag. She'd do well on a broad reach with the board halfway, and, of course, she'd sail good to weather with the board all the way down. At times, I'd sail with the board
down on all points of sail, if there wasn't enough wind to hold her steady.
I used to sail mostly on Nantucket Sound, and the beauty of the centerboard was that it would just swing up when I sailed over a shoal, sort of the way it is here for those of us that sail the Florida coasts.
The main thing is, experiment and have fun. You've got a great boat for where you'll be sailing.
Hi, I have a C22 S/K also but I really try not to sail with the keel up.
1)It really doesn't appreciably go any faster even on a downwind (If your'e interested in speed.) and if you do decide to change course on that downwind with forgetting that it's up, you could lay her down.
2) It is noticeably more tender with it up as it changes the center of gravity. My keel is intentionally designed with the center of gravity lower than the midpoint. This means that the keel's C of G is about 4' below the W/L when down and at about 2' 5" below W/L when fully up. The lower the better for this.
3)The boat pretty much sails fastest with it down. It's hull shape makes it most efficient at a maximum heel angle of about 10-18 degs. range at most. I have tried it up in lighter air and it seems a lot more tender to me.
4)These boats will not float long if they swamp and this time to the bottom will be much shorter if any of the hatches are open. A boat sunk
5) The boat is designed to have it down. Some people will use the locking bolt under the seat but it doesn't hold well in a 'situation". Consequently if you ground out and drag the keel over rocks with the cable part way up, the keel could drop to a stop against the cable. This could cause the cable to break or the winch system to fail. Grounding could also put a big strain on the 4 small keel bolts at the pivot pin if there's any side movement with the keel planted in the bottom.
For the depth issue, I'd advise a depth sounder / fish finder will work also. I have a place that's too shallow and it catches me sometimes. If I ground out, I drop the sails asap, raise the keel off the bottom and motor away. Then next fall,I will be adding more epoxy filler to the keel where it hit.
Bilbo is right
Bilbo's response was very well thought out and well writtten. His comments about the center of gravity are due to the keel being much thicker near the bottom than near the top. This is what makes a Catalina 22 with a swing keel so stable, much more stable than many other boats we have seen, even bigger boats.
We always sail with our keel all the way down. There is a sticker near the keel winch that tell you that the keel must be down when sailing.
We sail with Catalina 22 Fleet 10 which is located around Annapolis, Maryland. There is a couple from Melborne, Florida, that sails on our Summer Cruise with us every year. If you send me a message at: captain@fleet10.org , I will give you their e-mail addresses so that you can contact them and maybe sail with them sometime. They have sailed Catalina 22s for many years, and are very experienced, and, of course, they are very nice too.
Aldo
By the way, I do remember looking a Com Pac 16 many years ago and thinking what a nice little boat it was. But I think it would limit you compared to a C-22, and the number of people you could take on it, and how long you can stay out. My wife and I have been on our boat for over a week many times, often with our 2 sons, when they were younger.
Aldo
Bilbo's response was very well thought out and well writtten. His comments about the center of gravity are due to the keel being much thicker near the bottom than near the top. This is what makes a Catalina 22 with a swing keel so stable, much more stable than many other boats we have seen, even bigger boats.
We always sail with our keel all the way down. There is a sticker near the keel winch that tell you that the keel must be down when sailing.
We sail with Catalina 22 Fleet 10 which is located around Annapolis, Maryland. There is a couple from Melborne, Florida, that sails on our Summer Cruise with us every year. If you send me a message at: captain@fleet10.org , I will give you their e-mail addresses so that you can contact them and maybe sail with them sometime. They have sailed Catalina 22s for many years, and are very experienced, and, of course, they are very nice too.
Aldo
By the way, I do remember looking a Com Pac 16 many years ago and thinking what a nice little boat it was. But I think it would limit you compared to a C-22, and the number of people you could take on it, and how long you can stay out. My wife and I have been on our boat for over a week many times, often with our 2 sons, when they were younger.
Aldo
Swing Keel Up
Yes, I have sailed my C22 a few times with the keel still up, made a few tacks upwind and discovered it wouldn't point quite as well as expected, so remembered that the keel was up and put it down where it normally belongs. I agree with Bilbo, Aldo and Ken, but suspect if I were in your waters, I would occasionally sail with her up a bit where its a case of sail or not sail. RK
Yes, I have sailed my C22 a few times with the keel still up, made a few tacks upwind and discovered it wouldn't point quite as well as expected, so remembered that the keel was up and put it down where it normally belongs. I agree with Bilbo, Aldo and Ken, but suspect if I were in your waters, I would occasionally sail with her up a bit where its a case of sail or not sail. RK
Testing it
I always heard that raising the keel on a C-22 would make the boat go faster. Two times come to mind. One time we were running and watching the speed on our GPS and then raised the keel. I remember saying that the difference in speed didn't make it worth the difference in stability. On another occcasion, we were also running and overtaking our friends in their C-22. They raised their keel to keep us from passing them and we continued to just sail by them. Our boat was just lighter and faster than theirs. They even tried moving their weight forward and that didn't make any difference either.
Aldo
I always heard that raising the keel on a C-22 would make the boat go faster. Two times come to mind. One time we were running and watching the speed on our GPS and then raised the keel. I remember saying that the difference in speed didn't make it worth the difference in stability. On another occcasion, we were also running and overtaking our friends in their C-22. They raised their keel to keep us from passing them and we continued to just sail by them. Our boat was just lighter and faster than theirs. They even tried moving their weight forward and that didn't make any difference either.
Aldo
If you have a well formed foil (ie. if you have shaped and faired the keel), you will get some lift from the keel that you won't get from an unfaired/shaped keel. Thus, even downwind (except perhaps dead downwind) you'll generally do better, and of course, you won't have to worry about a bad knock down if the wind should come up suddenly.
I sailed yesterday in 15-20kts with the keel up for a bit, and when the boat heeled far enough to put water running over the rails, I slowed down and dropped the keel, at which point the boat behaved very well at the same point of sail. . .
I won't be trying that again.
I won't be trying that again.
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