Hard vs not hard? Bottom paint

kpgraci · Mar 22, 2013

I've been looking at bottom paint myself, and here's what I know so far (its not much...)

Hard is, well, hard, a nice tough finish. The main problem seems to be build up, every few seasons you need to take it off, which I can image is a big messy job. Also, hard does not prevent slime and barnacles as well as ablative because it wears out as the chemicals leech out of it.

Ablative is better for slime and barnacle protection because it constantly exposes new surface as it wears away, problem is it needs to be replaced every season, some brands claim every two seasons.

I put on a coat of hard 2 years ago (essentially the first coat), now I'm going to go over it with some type of ablative.

As far as which is best for heavy slime, that depends on the formulation, you need to read what the manufacturer claims for the product - or better yet find someone that has used something that works (I know, that's what you're trying to do now).

Painting over the existing stuff again depends on the manufacturer - they should tell you if that's OK based on what you are going to paint over. I would think any hard epoxy is OK to go over with most anything, whereas over ablative the new stuff needs to be 'compatible' with the old.

To complicate things some areas frown on copper, and copper is what makes this stuff work so well - there are non-copper formulations, they cost more and I'm guessing are less effective, but I may be wrong.

Joe11688 · Mar 23, 2013

jfschena said:
My oday 26 currently has unepoxy bottom paint. The previous owner says that worked fine for him. He was not on Lake Winnebago. It gets pretty green and scuzzy and I wonder if I would be better off with an ablative bottom paint. Anyone have experience with these two different products in a really green body of water? Can I paint on the ablative over the unepoxy?

Thanks

I have to be honest and say that I never heard of unepoxy bottom paint. However, if you are looking for an ablative bottom paint that can be painted over bare gelcoat and over most bottom paints, you should check out Super Shipbottom Ablative bottom paint. http://supershipbottom.com/

This paint contains 62.5% copper and has a built in primer in it. Myself, I like this paint. I've been using it for years and I have a few other friends who use it.
It takes a while to get this paint and you need to give them a call and find out what colors are available right now. He only manufactures one color a couple of weeks or a month. I don't remember exactly.
I get about two seasons out of one coat. You need a good face respirator when you put it on. The fumes can give you a pretty good headache. After it dries though, you can't smell anything. I think it's a great paint.
If you're painting over bare gel coat, you need to remove the mold release wax with Acetone. Your boat may be old like mine, but it still has this wax from the day it was molded at the factory.
Give them a call. I think her name is Marion. Ed manufacturers the paint and it can be shipped by the postal service or UPS. UPS charges an extra $20 for hazardous waste handling and the US Postal Service doesn't.

Joe

Pat · Mar 23, 2013

Joe, I went to the website and watched the video. I am going to buy this for this spring..
It depends....the drought is so bad here that our slips are in the mud...we will need to mow our slips...our lake is 8 ft. low so I don't think there is a big hurry. Thanks for the link. Patrick in Wichita

fstbttms · Mar 23, 2013

jfschena said:
Can I paint on the ablative over the unepoxy?

Yes.

Joe11688 · Mar 23, 2013

Patrick,
I know you're going to like this paint. The price is pretty reasonable I think, and it goes on nice with a roller and a cheap paint brush. All you need is one coat. Then after it dries, you just paint the leading edges of the bow, keel, rudder, and around the waterline of the boat. That's it.
Next year, if you have any paint left in one of the cans, just spot paint the bottom where needed and you're good to go for another year. I like this paint because it's cheap in price when you consider the superfluous amount of copper in it, and it will do the job.

Technodad · Mar 24, 2013

Joe,
thank you for the link to Super shipbottom paint, it looks great and I have just talked to Marion and ordered a gallon of blue.
Thanks again, we all rely on your vast knowledge of eeeverything

John

Joe11688 · Mar 24, 2013

Technodad said:
Joe,
thank you for the link to Super shipbottom paint, it looks great and I have just talked to Marion and ordered a gallon of blue.
Thanks again, we all rely on your vast knowledge of eeeverything

John

John,

I remember the first time I ever bottom painted my boat. I knew absolutely nothing about bottom paint. I bought a gallon of el-cheapo ablative bottom paint at "Worst Marine", plus two quarts of primer. To make a long story short, I never read the label on the can. Come to find out, the primer needed to be tacky to the touch for the bottom paint to adhere.
I thought to myself, "How the heck am I going to pull this off with four boat stands supporting the boat?"
So I took some 2x4s and 2x6s and wedged them under the gunwales to the ground, all around the boat and removed all the boat stands. I had the boat's shored up high on wood blocks. I should have taken a picture of that.
I ran out of primer and didn't have time to buy more but that was OK because the bottom coat held to the bare fiberglass gel coat.

After the paint dried, it still stunk like you wouldn't believe. I trailered the boat to the club and launched it and it still stunk while it was sitting in the water. I couldn't stand the smell of it. The stink never did go away.

A few weeks went by and I took her out for a sail in a good wind and the boat was so slow, you'd think the anchor had fell overboard and was dragging.
I brought her into a shallow sandy cove, anchored, and dove down under her and ya know what? The whole bottom was covered with a thick soft sheet of marine growth!

What a waste of time and money.

After that fiasco, I talked to two of my friends about it and they pointed me in the direction of Super Shipbottom. Been using it ever since. Believe me, I've been through the "school of hard knocks",-- many times.

I used to get a 5% discount on SSB paint years ago when a friend on this forum talked me into joining his Penn Yan boat club forum on Put In Bay Bass Island, Lake Erie in OH, but that's another story.

Good luck guys!
Joe

AaronL · Mar 25, 2013

This thread is great since it's my next priority in getting ready for my first full season with my 25' (or any boat for that matter). I bought the boat on a mooring and have no idea what it currently has for bottom paint. Its black, hard and is flaking off in a bunch of areas showing gel coat. What should I do?

Joe11688 · Mar 25, 2013

The O'Day 25 is a nice boat Aaron. I assume that it's a keel/centerboard sloop. What I would do is have it pulled out and bottom painted. While they have it on the boat stands, or when they lift it, have them check the centerboard pendant line and shackle connection to the board. Learn all you can about boat maintenance.
I really don't enjoy doing bottom painting myself, but I've been able to do it to my boat right in my yard every other year.
What I do enjoy though is doing the modifications to my boat that can make it user friendly, and personalize it. You will enjoy doing them also.
Check out all the owners picture albums on this site and you will find a wealth of ideas that you can adapt to your O'Day 25. It's easy. Just click on to my handle "Trinkka", for instance and it will take you to my page with all the albums and info. You can do this to anyone's User name and start getting some new ideas that you may be able to use.
Good luck with your boat.
Joe

AaronL · Mar 25, 2013

Thanks Joe,
The boat has been in my shop for the winter. It has a fixed keel. I'm thinking I can do the bottom painting myself. I don't know if I'll need to strip off paint or just scrape loose paint and recoat.

Thanks,

Aaron

RichBone · Mar 25, 2013

VC-17 Works good here on Lake Erie. Smooth finish and just a little touch up each year.

Joe11688 · Mar 25, 2013

Ah beautiful! You're going to save some bucks. You really don't need to remove the old bottom paint down to the Gelcoat unless it's that soft bottom paint, but what I would do is sand it down so that you don't have any areas of thick build up that form craters. This SSB will adhere to most bottom paints but you want it to look half way decent. Although you're not going to see the bottom once it's in the water, a smooth underwater surface will provide maximum hull speed.

Use a long stick with a plasterer's sanding pad of about 60 grit and wear a good canister type respirator. You definitely don't want to breath this stuff. I would even wear a full protective suit. Just take your time and do the best you can.
Good luck with the boat. Maybe I'll see you out there some day.

Joe

Ward H · Apr 1, 2013

Joe,
On your recommendations about SSB paint, I spoke with Marion a couple of times. She gave me a local reference who has been using it on his fleet of fishing boats and casual boats. He raved about it.
I need to get my paint ordered as it will soon be warm enough to start on the bottom.

Aron, you sound like me. I bought my 25 the end of September. Got to sail her 4 times before Sandy necessitated a quick haul out. She sailed really well.
I got my list of maintenance items, upgrades and stuff I am starting on.
Have fun!