Hard to start Universal diesel

Aug 15, 2019
1
Pacific Seacraft 37 37' FL
New member, I have a 30hp 4 cylinder universal engine in a Pacific Seacraft 37ft sailboat. Motor runs great at all speeds and loads however it is hard to start if starter fluid is not used in the start procedure. It has heaters on the injectors and I let it heat up the required 1-2 minutes before trying to start it. Any thoughts or ideas? Thanks David
 
Nov 6, 2006
9,884
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
could be a tiny air leak between the tank outlet and the suction port of the lift pump..
also could be badly adjusted valves.. if the valve gap or "lash" has not been checked in a few years, that should be done before going further..
Could be dirty injectors, or it could be that the engine is tired and needs new rings..
 

capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
I agree about the glow plugs. 15 seconds is the norm. I'm guessing you've burnt them (or most of them) out, therefore they aren't doing their job. With our Onan, 15 seconds max means a quick start and no glow plugs means hard starting.
 
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WayneH

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Jan 22, 2008
1,039
Tartan 37 287 Pensacola, FL
David,
I would get the injectors and the glow plugs checked. I've got a couple of weak glow plugs on my 1980 Westerbeke so she starts up a little ragged with some white smoke until those cylinders heat up and it smooths out. And that's with 30 seconds of preheat.
Then I would check the fittings and hoses on the tank suction line for cracks and loose fittings.
Check the compression on the engine. Worn rings and valve seats will cause compression issues.
Check the valve lash. Need a new gasket.
Still have issues? Might be rebuild or replace time.

My opinion. Worth everything you paid for it. ;)
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,989
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
@black1967 Welcome to the Forum.
I cringed when you said you were letting the glow plugs heat for 2 minutes. That is not normal.
I would inspect the glow plugs and wiring for function. They do wear out.

As others have indicated. The diesel needs fuel, air and compression to run. After checking your Glow Plugs, then fuel supply would be the next biggie.
 
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May 17, 2004
5,026
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
I agree with the others that glow plugs time should be measured in seconds, not minutes. Is it also hard to start if it has run recently and is still warm? Also, be careful with started fluid on a diesel. It's generally not recommended as it can ignite too early in high compression diesel engines and cause severe damage.
 

Ted

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Jan 26, 2005
1,254
C&C 110 Bay Shore, Long Island, NY
Don't use starting fluid to start your engines. It may lead to some serious damage. Try using a heat gun or hair dryer to preheat the combustion air. If that helps, you can rule out fuel delivery problems. If it doesn't, most likely the glow plugs are shot or you have really low compression.
 
Feb 8, 2014
1,300
Columbia 36 Muskegon
Try WD40 instead of starting fluid. It's very similar to diesel. If she starts on WD40, you know it's a fuel delivery problem. I'm betting on the glow plugs though. You can easily diagnose the plugs of you have a volt meter in your panel. The voltage should drop a volt or two when the glow button is pushed. If it doesn't, they're not working.
 
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Dec 28, 2015
1,837
Laser, Hunter H30 Cherubini Tacoma
Does the glow plug system have a relay? When my Powestroke starts to start hard its usually the relay starting to fail. Other than that I would evaluate it for compression.
 
Jan 26, 2019
68
Catalina 30, mkI 2462 Waukegan, IL
Universal Diesels require unusually long glow plug times 30-60 seconds. This is per the manual.

I found it hard to believe when I saw my boat's previous owner holding the button for >30 seconds. I thought there was trouble with the engine. Heck, after all my buddies with Yanmar engines sometimes do not even use glow plug. When they do, it's just a few seconds.

At any rate, my trustworthy 1982 Universal Diesel 5411 (2 cylinder, 11 hp), fires right up after 30 seconds of glow plug. Less than that--especially if it's cold outside--and I am rolling the dice.

There are other possible issues too. A long power run through undersized wire to the glow plugs can mean only 11 V or so at the glow plugs. For me, I see 11-ish volts at the plugs but it's not a big deal because my plugs are rated to run on something like 10.6 V (convenient). I think after a few seconds of warming up, they are supposed to draw 7 A of current.

My manual also says that sometime you need to keep the plugs energized while cranking the engine. I have never done this. However, if I don't crank the engine immediately after the preheat (say if I wait more than 5 seconds or so), then I notice it's a little harder to start.

==>You can go to Westerbake.com and look up the super detailed manuals for just about every engine they Universal ever made.
 
May 17, 2004
5,026
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Universal Diesels require unusually long glow plug times 30-60 seconds. This is per the manual.

I found it hard to believe when I saw my boat's previous owner holding the button for >30 seconds. I thought there was trouble with the engine. Heck, after all my buddies with Yanmar engines sometimes do not even use glow plug. When they do, it's just a few seconds.

At any rate, my trustworthy 1982 Universal Diesel 5411 (2 cylinder, 11 hp), fires right up after 30 seconds of glow plug. Less than that--especially if it's cold outside--and I am rolling the dice.

There are other possible issues too. A long power run through undersized wire to the glow plugs can mean only 11 V or so at the glow plugs. For me, I see 11-ish volts at the plugs but it's not a big deal because my plugs are rated to run on something like 10.6 V (convenient). I think after a few seconds of warming up, they are supposed to draw 7 A of current.

My manual also says that sometime you need to keep the plugs energized while cranking the engine. I have never done this. However, if I don't crank the engine immediately after the preheat (say if I wait more than 5 seconds or so), then I notice it's a little harder to start.

==>You can go to Westerbake.com and look up the super detailed manuals for just about every engine they Universal ever made.
Interesting. Our Universal M12 needed 8-10 seconds of glow plugs when really cold, less if it was warmer. On our Yanmar we haven't used the plugs yet. On the Universal we did always hold the plugs while starting. I think it was wired to need that, but I'm not sure, and certainly some are not wired that way.
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,989
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Such use will eventually put a strain on your starting battery. The combination of glow plug draw and engine start means you need a few COLD CRANK AMPS in your battery.

The recommendation to check your wiring and make sure it is of a size to minimize your voltage drop is sage advise.
 

Ward H

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Nov 7, 2011
3,645
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
If you have a voltmeter on your engine panel, watch the voltage when you turn on the glow plugs. You should see a slight dip in voltage. If you don't, good chance the glow plugs are done. Glow plugs are cheap. I found them for my Universal for $8 each on Amazon.
 
Jan 15, 2012
97
Ericson 28/2 Port Kent
Interesting. Our Universal M12 needed 8-10 seconds of glow plugs when really cold, less if it was warmer. On our Yanmar we haven't used the plugs yet. On the Universal we did always hold the plugs while starting. I think it was wired to need that, but I'm not sure, and certainly some are not wired that way.
The original wiring for the M-12 had the glow plug and start button in series. Later wiring modification separated them to work independently. I need about 15sec. of glow plug activation on my rebuilt 87' M-12.
 

BarryL

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May 21, 2004
1,000
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 409 Mt. Sinai, NY
Hello,

I had a universal diesel in my Oday 35. It had a lot of hours on it, over 5000, but ran great. When the outside temp was below 60:it was hard to start. The glow plugs worked but not great. When the engine was warm it started right up. When cold, and temps above 70, it needed 30 seconds of glow plugs.
It the temps were below 60 a quick shot or starting fluid worked great, then the engine would fire after a few seconds. I always thought that was better than cranking for 30 seconds.

Barry
 
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May 6, 2010
472
1984 Oday 39 79 Milwaukee
Our 44hp Universal starts instantly with 10 seconds of glow plugs. Our 34 with an M25 needed 10-15 seconds depending on ambient temps. I would definitely check the glow plugs - wire in a solenoid if you don't have one.
 
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capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
Hello,

I had a universal diesel in my Oday 35. It had a lot of hours on it, over 5000, but ran great. When the outside temp was below 60:it was hard to start. The glow plugs worked but not great. When the engine was warm it started right up. When cold, and temps above 70, it needed 30 seconds of glow plugs.
It the temps were below 60 a quick shot or starting fluid worked great, then the engine would fire after a few seconds. I always thought that was better than cranking for 30 seconds.

Barry
Unfortunately, starting fluid is really bad for a diesel engine. Their high compression can cause the fluid to ignite too early, effectively causing pre-ignition, which invites all kinds of problems, like catastrophic piston or rod damage. Plus, it has no lubricating properties, so it can hasten piston wear.
I will only use it when all else fails and the safety of those on board is at stake. One of those 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' things.