Handheld VHF radio
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Strong opinions, Brian, and just that. Yes, the HX851 is a little complex, and you should practice it's use with the manual in hand-true of almost every new piece of electronics. However, the GPS is needed for DSC and the handheld is the only practical way to put DSC on a small, batteryless boat-I carry mine on my H216, and it gives me a gps position, course to the harbor entry buoy, and a radio in one package. It also is handy in a dinghy where you might need to get the attention of nearby boats for help or find your way back to the mothership in the fog. Not a perfect solution, but not everyone has a plb clipped to their fair weather vests (our heavy weather vest/harness combos all have a plb). In addition, in Maine you really want to be rescued by a local boat-you'll freeze before the Coast Guard rescue response from the plb gets to you.
A further note- the WM equivalent was just on sale for $200, pretty cost effective IMHO
A further note- the WM equivalent was just on sale for $200, pretty cost effective IMHO
Setting off your DSC is asking for assistance for those that understand what distress means. Furthermore you are required by law to assist.
Your putting your kid on everyone else's boat for this math lesson?
15 minutes to an hour depending on the epirb model, and your not hailing close boaters for help in the interim with the epirb.
Also, DSC continues to call until its shut off, so you can tend to other issues than hailing you on 16. For god sakes man! Read a book or something before you get someone killed.
Rendering Assistance (46 USC 2304)
The master or person in charge of a vesselRendering Assistance (46 USC 2304)
The master or person in charge of a vessel is obligated by law to provide assistance that can be safely provided to any individual in danger at sea . The master or person in charge is subject to a fine and/ or imprisonment for failure to do so . is obligated by law to provide assistance that can be safely provided to any individual in danger at sea . The master or person in charge is subject to a fine and/ or imprisonment for failure to do so .
Your putting your kid on everyone else's boat for this math lesson?
15 minutes to an hour depending on the epirb model, and your not hailing close boaters for help in the interim with the epirb.
Also, DSC continues to call until its shut off, so you can tend to other issues than hailing you on 16. For god sakes man! Read a book or something before you get someone killed.
Rendering Assistance (46 USC 2304)
The master or person in charge of a vesselRendering Assistance (46 USC 2304)
The master or person in charge of a vessel is obligated by law to provide assistance that can be safely provided to any individual in danger at sea . The master or person in charge is subject to a fine and/ or imprisonment for failure to do so . is obligated by law to provide assistance that can be safely provided to any individual in danger at sea . The master or person in charge is subject to a fine and/ or imprisonment for failure to do so .
I can respond regarding EPIRB and PLB. There is no GPS involved however, some units may be active all the time and thus acquire GPS lock if they are so equipted. These units basically sit dormant until they are fired up. It would take too long to get a fix on GPS. The signal is received by a host of LEO (Low Earth Orbit) or MEO (Medium Earth Orbit) satellites and they triangulate the location. It is not exact but can get very close.
Now, the unit does not acquire the satellite since the unit is a transmitter only. The theoretical time frame is <1/8 second. GEO (Geostationary Earth Orbit) is approximately 1/8 second (as the electron flies) distance from earth. So that would be around 27,000 miles. Since the LEO and MEO are closer, the time is instantaneous.
Now, there is bound to be some requirements to be met before the activation of a distress alert in any of the Emergency Centers. That could mean that x number of bursts must be received in x seconds before the alert is sounded. This part is all guessing. So how long before the alert center is activated is beyond me.
Just so I can quantify my qualifications, I have been working is the commercial and government satellite field for over 20 years now.
Now, the unit does not acquire the satellite since the unit is a transmitter only. The theoretical time frame is <1/8 second. GEO (Geostationary Earth Orbit) is approximately 1/8 second (as the electron flies) distance from earth. So that would be around 27,000 miles. Since the LEO and MEO are closer, the time is instantaneous.
Now, there is bound to be some requirements to be met before the activation of a distress alert in any of the Emergency Centers. That could mean that x number of bursts must be received in x seconds before the alert is sounded. This part is all guessing. So how long before the alert center is activated is beyond me.
Just so I can quantify my qualifications, I have been working is the commercial and government satellite field for over 20 years now.
"There is no requirement that any boater use or monitor DSC transmissions in order to keep a watch, or render assistance. You want my help, you will have to ask for it via voice transmission."
Wow, that's :lame:
It may be true you don't have to have DSC equipment but if your radio is DSC equipped and turned on and monitoring as it should be by regulation and you so happen to get a DSC signal with GPS coordinates close by without a verbal hailing (maybe they are not able to) I would hope you would at the very least radio another vessel or the CG and give them the option to assist in rescue.
jimmyb
Wow, that's :lame:
It may be true you don't have to have DSC equipment but if your radio is DSC equipped and turned on and monitoring as it should be by regulation and you so happen to get a DSC signal with GPS coordinates close by without a verbal hailing (maybe they are not able to) I would hope you would at the very least radio another vessel or the CG and give them the option to assist in rescue.
jimmyb
Will your DSC radio even hear a Distress DCS call?
My fixed radio is an ICOM M422. It is 6 yrs old and was a mid-range/premium radio and very commonly installed in new boats at the time. I always assumed if someone within range issued a DSC general (or Distress) call, I'd hear it. I've only recently realized that the radio must be tuned to CH70 to even hear a DSC call. Mine is normally tuned to CH16.
I haven't yet experimented to see if I can configure "Dual Watch" (a function of the radio to listen to two channels at a time) to allow DSC to be received at the same time as CH16. Maybe I can, but even if so, I am still convinced that most owners of this radio, and others like it, are not aware of the issue, so will never hear a DSC call!!
I also have a handheld Std Horizon HX851 that does not have this issue (it will always hear DSC on CH79 - it is more modern that the ICOM). But I'm willing to bet that most DSC equipped radios of a few years ago are the same as my ICOM M422 and will never hear a DSC transmission.
Be careful what you assume here!!!
My fixed radio is an ICOM M422. It is 6 yrs old and was a mid-range/premium radio and very commonly installed in new boats at the time. I always assumed if someone within range issued a DSC general (or Distress) call, I'd hear it. I've only recently realized that the radio must be tuned to CH70 to even hear a DSC call. Mine is normally tuned to CH16.
I haven't yet experimented to see if I can configure "Dual Watch" (a function of the radio to listen to two channels at a time) to allow DSC to be received at the same time as CH16. Maybe I can, but even if so, I am still convinced that most owners of this radio, and others like it, are not aware of the issue, so will never hear a DSC call!!
I also have a handheld Std Horizon HX851 that does not have this issue (it will always hear DSC on CH79 - it is more modern that the ICOM). But I'm willing to bet that most DSC equipped radios of a few years ago are the same as my ICOM M422 and will never hear a DSC transmission.
I understand. Not assuming anything here, only IF one receives a distress call with whatever equipment they have and is still not responsive. That IMO is Lame.
Jimmy; Call it lame or whatever, I'm just calibrating expectations for those who believe that a DSC radio represents an adequate rescue request method. Consider these items; 1)My fixed radio is located at my nav station, 20 feet from my helm, and below decks, I stand my watch at the wheel with a RAM mic and voice comms only. 2)As an ocean rated boat I am frequently one of the few boats out when the conditions start sinking small craft. So you probably want me in the loop if I am nearby. Your best bet is a voice pan-pan on Ch16 delivered by a capable radio operator, and enough battery life to stay powered until the rescue arrives. You can DSC the CG watch officer, and she can pan-pan all ships, but someone will need to give voice coordinates or reference location if they want me to respond. Call me direct and you avoid the mandatory CG response safety check 
With the advent of affordable AIS (Auto Identification System) transmitters you could identify your boat, make a call and if you are within about 10 miles of my location I can find you on my chartplotter, and set a course to your transom. There are even personal AIS devices.
For the small boater, I believe a PLB properly registered and updated, clipped to your body, and a simple waterproof handheld VHS round your neck represents your best bet for getting home alive. Even if you don't have your radio a 406MHz beacon will easily stay lit until the rescue finds you, or your POC confirms that you got back and called home. I've seen it work flawlessly several times.
With the advent of affordable AIS (Auto Identification System) transmitters you could identify your boat, make a call and if you are within about 10 miles of my location I can find you on my chartplotter, and set a course to your transom. There are even personal AIS devices.
For the small boater, I believe a PLB properly registered and updated, clipped to your body, and a simple waterproof handheld VHS round your neck represents your best bet for getting home alive. Even if you don't have your radio a 406MHz beacon will easily stay lit until the rescue finds you, or your POC confirms that you got back and called home. I've seen it work flawlessly several times.
Thanks for calibrating my expectations. I really needed that.
DSC embeds GPS location in distress signal instantly. No need for the "pan pan" and trying to read your 1mm GPS coordinates off of whatever your using while the boat is in trouble.
VHF radios do not need to be monitoring channel 70 to receive distress calls.
Since your big seaworthy boat is out in the rougher weather... Do you think you would be most easily reached by an Epirb, PLB, handheld radio with 3 mile range max or a DSC distress call from a fixed mount VHF and mast head antenna?
Maybe instead of pontificating all day and dishing irrelevant information about your own boating habits: you could answer the one question for us?
DSC embeds GPS location in distress signal instantly. No need for the "pan pan" and trying to read your 1mm GPS coordinates off of whatever your using while the boat is in trouble.
VHF radios do not need to be monitoring channel 70 to receive distress calls.
Since your big seaworthy boat is out in the rougher weather... Do you think you would be most easily reached by an Epirb, PLB, handheld radio with 3 mile range max or a DSC distress call from a fixed mount VHF and mast head antenna?
Maybe instead of pontificating all day and dishing irrelevant information about your own boating habits: you could answer the one question for us?
Best to Check Facts Before Being so Dogmatic
As I mention in my post above, some radios DO need to be tuned to CH70 to receive ANY DSC signals. They are of a class of radios called "SC101" that have only one channel. As I mentioned it might be possible to program them so they quickly alternate their listening between CH70 and CH16 (or any other pair) in the hope that they will pick up a signal from either, but the short duration of the digital DSC signal may make that not practical or reliable. My 6 yr old ICOM M422 is of this type, and there are MANY MANY of them around.
A more modern and better class is "Class D". They have two channels so one is always listening to CH70. This is preferable, and my guess is that most (or all) new radios are of this class. HOWEVER, there are lots of SC101s out there in boats, and many of this forum's readers (obviously including you) may not realize that their radio may not pick up DSC unless tuned to CH70.
JWB you should check your facts and be a little more civil (to Gunni, that is - not to me).
As I mention in my post above, some radios DO need to be tuned to CH70 to receive ANY DSC signals. They are of a class of radios called "SC101" that have only one channel. As I mentioned it might be possible to program them so they quickly alternate their listening between CH70 and CH16 (or any other pair) in the hope that they will pick up a signal from either, but the short duration of the digital DSC signal may make that not practical or reliable. My 6 yr old ICOM M422 is of this type, and there are MANY MANY of them around.
A more modern and better class is "Class D". They have two channels so one is always listening to CH70. This is preferable, and my guess is that most (or all) new radios are of this class. HOWEVER, there are lots of SC101s out there in boats, and many of this forum's readers (obviously including you) may not realize that their radio may not pick up DSC unless tuned to CH70.
Re: Best to Check Facts Before Being so Dogmatic
Syun10; sc101 has been obsoleted-all new fixed vhf radios must be class d and can always monitor ch70.
Brian, older eirbs match your description, but many of the newer eirbs and all of the plbs have a built in GPS . My mcmurdo plbs did a cold start and passed the GPS position acquisition test in about 4 minutes. My ais emergency beacon managed a cold start,position acquisition and test mob transmission in about 2 minutes that was received on 2 boats with different ais systems
Syun10; sc101 has been obsoleted-all new fixed vhf radios must be class d and can always monitor ch70.
Brian, older eirbs match your description, but many of the newer eirbs and all of the plbs have a built in GPS . My mcmurdo plbs did a cold start and passed the GPS position acquisition test in about 4 minutes. My ais emergency beacon managed a cold start,position acquisition and test mob transmission in about 2 minutes that was received on 2 boats with different ais systems
Well said chuck Wayne.
Did someone actually tell me to fact check?
We just had someone post that "there is no good reason to have GPS or DSC on a handheld VHF"
... And I should check my facts?
God help us
Did someone actually tell me to fact check?
We just had someone post that "there is no good reason to have GPS or DSC on a handheld VHF"
... And I should check my facts?
God help us
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