Is having a mapping GPS really useful? Can you see the chart, is color handy, is a wrist mounted one ok? Don't you use the Lat & Lon #s to place you on a paper chart? Help. Fair Winds Kevin PS-I used to use roadmaps to sail the Great Lakes years ago. Friends knew something was up when I bouight paper charts-it was-I eloped and got married off Mackinac Island 22 years ago on an Amphibi-Con25. I don't know-I just felt like tossing that in.
HandHeld GPSs
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Handheld GPS
There has been some recent discussion on this subject. Check the archives. Since I'm a trailer sailor I use a Garmin76MapS handheld with the BlueCharts installed. Don't know about wrist mounted. Might be OK if all you need lat & long. Don't think they make a wrist mounted mapping GPS but, Ask Dick Tracy, he's the expert. The 76MapS has everything the charts have, and then some and has all the other bells and whistles. However, you have to squint a little. The newer color version is easier to read. With the paper charts as your primary reference and the handheld as a back up, you always know where you are.
There has been some recent discussion on this subject. Check the archives. Since I'm a trailer sailor I use a Garmin76MapS handheld with the BlueCharts installed. Don't know about wrist mounted. Might be OK if all you need lat & long. Don't think they make a wrist mounted mapping GPS but, Ask Dick Tracy, he's the expert. The 76MapS has everything the charts have, and then some and has all the other bells and whistles. However, you have to squint a little. The newer color version is easier to read. With the paper charts as your primary reference and the handheld as a back up, you always know where you are.
Chartplotters and more
Kevin, IMHO it depends on what sort of sailing is done. Generally, I think chartplotters are more popular on bigger boats for a couple of reasons... the owner has the bucks to buy a large enough screen and color... and bigger boats may be more concerned with channels, nav aids and having the deepr water outlined. Your H260 like my C250 can gunkhole into skinny water and electronic vector charts are not as detailed as raster paper charts and don't show all the rocks, fouls and nooks and crannies that are helpful to many of the Great Lakes cruising grounds. I don't however want to revert to looking at co-ordinates and figuring where on the chart the position is... too much time effort and room for mistakes. For that reason, I'm not interested in a Charplotter, but I am interested in Chartplotting but using my raster charts. How is Chartplotting done then without a plotter? At least two possible ways, one is to use lap top or a pda and use moving map on a detailed raster chart. The process however probably eats up too much juice on an outboard equipped boat to leave it on for long periods, and a pda might not be large enough for easily seeing. I think a better plan is use a charting program with the raster charts, and make waypoints for all pertinent nav aids, as well as points of routes that keep the boat in safe water. Keep in mind however that having a lot of waypoints is useless without a tool to manage them... one has to be able to identify quickly a waypoint that can provide the reference needed for any given location. The answer to that is simple, mark the waypoints on the charting software and then print the charts from the software on 8.5x11 paper and laminate with the plastic protective covers and place in a thin binder. The result are detailed cockpit charts that are large enough to be easily read but small enough to be handled, that store easily under a cockpit cushion, and have all the pertinent data on them to allow a quicker and more accurate fix than struggling with finding and deciphering the lat & lon from the boarder of the chart. Because they are easily printed on the home computer printer, notations on them are easy to made without concern for the chart. Also, grease pencil works well on the outer jacket protecting the chart for making periodic progress marks or other notations for later log book entry or what have you. I've used this method of navigating northern Lake Huron, the North Channel and Georgian Bay for many years now and would not go back to navigating from the borders of full size paper charts. I've had a couple of charts get only slightly moistened at the edge. Planning of course if fundamental to it working as the multitude of waypoints are set prior to the cruise so that they are identified on the chart when its printed. Of course other points can be manually set and added to the gps. I in fact carry my lap top to make changes occassionally from original float plans and can do moving map display with it...but I've only turned it on one time in many years of cruising out of any need for moving map chartplotting and that was because we entered an strange harbor at Blind River, Ontario... and wanted to take anchorage out of the channel and outside the inner harbor because it was just after midnight when we arrived and it was absolutely pitch dark. The waypoints I had set, would have taken me into the inner harbor through the channel safely, but there was a good anchorage location off the channel which I didn't have a waypoint marked for and I had decided thats where I wanted to be until morning. Electronic vector charts would no doubt have provided the resource to navigate the channel to the inner harbor, but I'm not sure they would have provided the ability to get to the small shallow anchorage to avoid entering the marina at night and waking everyone within. Two nights ago, I finished printing the charts for the first of a two part cruise this summer on Lake Superior. This part is from Copper Harbor on the Keweenaw Peninsula of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan to and around Isle Royale National Park and return. There are 50 pages of charts with 150 waypoints, 10 routes plus two backpack routes as well as several divert havens, all well marked. The four charts needed to produce this were bought online from MarinePlanner.com at a cost of 4.50 each (they are the latest NOAA renditions and infact free upgrades for a year after the purchase of a chart) and I use the charting software called OziExplorer and I think it is currently $75. I've used the program six years now, after purchase all future upgrades are free and it has been upgraded a great deal in the last six years. Wow, I got windy... but I guess I felt like the chartplotter freight train has so much momentum and I needed to make a point, that there are reasonable aternatives to chartplotters that I think make a great deal of sense and are more in tune with smaller boat needs and budgets in terms of hardware, charts, energy consumption, and safety. Lastly,... the chartplotter may promote a discipline not to have backup paper charts or do precruise planning. Without backup paper charts and the plotter goes south... then the captain is SOL. If the weather turns nasty and its time to divert... without preplanning, judgements about divert locations are riskier than if preplanning caused a serious look at the locations and only notations made and waypoints set for those that seem reasonable. I doubt that using a handheld chartplotter during those times will yield as clear a picture as viewing a full scale NOAA chart allowed. Part of the issue may be the personal preference to visioning things. For many it may be that nothing works better than seeing a little symbol safely surrounded by blue. For others, knowing that two points and the line between them is relatively safe water because they've studied the charts and picked the points carefully is reasuring.
Kevin, IMHO it depends on what sort of sailing is done. Generally, I think chartplotters are more popular on bigger boats for a couple of reasons... the owner has the bucks to buy a large enough screen and color... and bigger boats may be more concerned with channels, nav aids and having the deepr water outlined. Your H260 like my C250 can gunkhole into skinny water and electronic vector charts are not as detailed as raster paper charts and don't show all the rocks, fouls and nooks and crannies that are helpful to many of the Great Lakes cruising grounds. I don't however want to revert to looking at co-ordinates and figuring where on the chart the position is... too much time effort and room for mistakes. For that reason, I'm not interested in a Charplotter, but I am interested in Chartplotting but using my raster charts. How is Chartplotting done then without a plotter? At least two possible ways, one is to use lap top or a pda and use moving map on a detailed raster chart. The process however probably eats up too much juice on an outboard equipped boat to leave it on for long periods, and a pda might not be large enough for easily seeing. I think a better plan is use a charting program with the raster charts, and make waypoints for all pertinent nav aids, as well as points of routes that keep the boat in safe water. Keep in mind however that having a lot of waypoints is useless without a tool to manage them... one has to be able to identify quickly a waypoint that can provide the reference needed for any given location. The answer to that is simple, mark the waypoints on the charting software and then print the charts from the software on 8.5x11 paper and laminate with the plastic protective covers and place in a thin binder. The result are detailed cockpit charts that are large enough to be easily read but small enough to be handled, that store easily under a cockpit cushion, and have all the pertinent data on them to allow a quicker and more accurate fix than struggling with finding and deciphering the lat & lon from the boarder of the chart. Because they are easily printed on the home computer printer, notations on them are easy to made without concern for the chart. Also, grease pencil works well on the outer jacket protecting the chart for making periodic progress marks or other notations for later log book entry or what have you. I've used this method of navigating northern Lake Huron, the North Channel and Georgian Bay for many years now and would not go back to navigating from the borders of full size paper charts. I've had a couple of charts get only slightly moistened at the edge. Planning of course if fundamental to it working as the multitude of waypoints are set prior to the cruise so that they are identified on the chart when its printed. Of course other points can be manually set and added to the gps. I in fact carry my lap top to make changes occassionally from original float plans and can do moving map display with it...but I've only turned it on one time in many years of cruising out of any need for moving map chartplotting and that was because we entered an strange harbor at Blind River, Ontario... and wanted to take anchorage out of the channel and outside the inner harbor because it was just after midnight when we arrived and it was absolutely pitch dark. The waypoints I had set, would have taken me into the inner harbor through the channel safely, but there was a good anchorage location off the channel which I didn't have a waypoint marked for and I had decided thats where I wanted to be until morning. Electronic vector charts would no doubt have provided the resource to navigate the channel to the inner harbor, but I'm not sure they would have provided the ability to get to the small shallow anchorage to avoid entering the marina at night and waking everyone within. Two nights ago, I finished printing the charts for the first of a two part cruise this summer on Lake Superior. This part is from Copper Harbor on the Keweenaw Peninsula of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan to and around Isle Royale National Park and return. There are 50 pages of charts with 150 waypoints, 10 routes plus two backpack routes as well as several divert havens, all well marked. The four charts needed to produce this were bought online from MarinePlanner.com at a cost of 4.50 each (they are the latest NOAA renditions and infact free upgrades for a year after the purchase of a chart) and I use the charting software called OziExplorer and I think it is currently $75. I've used the program six years now, after purchase all future upgrades are free and it has been upgraded a great deal in the last six years. Wow, I got windy... but I guess I felt like the chartplotter freight train has so much momentum and I needed to make a point, that there are reasonable aternatives to chartplotters that I think make a great deal of sense and are more in tune with smaller boat needs and budgets in terms of hardware, charts, energy consumption, and safety. Lastly,... the chartplotter may promote a discipline not to have backup paper charts or do precruise planning. Without backup paper charts and the plotter goes south... then the captain is SOL. If the weather turns nasty and its time to divert... without preplanning, judgements about divert locations are riskier than if preplanning caused a serious look at the locations and only notations made and waypoints set for those that seem reasonable. I doubt that using a handheld chartplotter during those times will yield as clear a picture as viewing a full scale NOAA chart allowed. Part of the issue may be the personal preference to visioning things. For many it may be that nothing works better than seeing a little symbol safely surrounded by blue. For others, knowing that two points and the line between them is relatively safe water because they've studied the charts and picked the points carefully is reasuring.
Charts and plotters
I am not sure what the Great lakes are like, but here in the Caribbean you need to be aware of more than just plotting and follow the course. Many of the charts here in the Caribbean can a be a mile or more off from the GPS coordiantes. Many times we have come into various islands and found them to far off of the GPS coordiantes. For example we used the Maptech Raster charts for Puerto rico and based on our GPS track we were traveling more than a mile inshore with our sailboat. We have several differnt GPS plotters onboard. We like our computer nav program the best as it allows us to make corrections, adjustments, and add mariners notices or our own observation as a permanent addtion to the chart. Just be aware that your eyes and other tools onboard are as important or more inportant than just plain charts. If the waves coming into an inlet look like they are showlling, even though the chart says it has depth, it probably is! Chartplotters are for small boats too! We bought a Raymarine Radar / Chartplotter SL72plus for $1400 US at Defender. We primarily use the radar but also use the chartplotter as cockpit redundency. You don't need the latest and greatest. These things can be added and not break your wallet.
I am not sure what the Great lakes are like, but here in the Caribbean you need to be aware of more than just plotting and follow the course. Many of the charts here in the Caribbean can a be a mile or more off from the GPS coordiantes. Many times we have come into various islands and found them to far off of the GPS coordiantes. For example we used the Maptech Raster charts for Puerto rico and based on our GPS track we were traveling more than a mile inshore with our sailboat. We have several differnt GPS plotters onboard. We like our computer nav program the best as it allows us to make corrections, adjustments, and add mariners notices or our own observation as a permanent addtion to the chart. Just be aware that your eyes and other tools onboard are as important or more inportant than just plain charts. If the waves coming into an inlet look like they are showlling, even though the chart says it has depth, it probably is! Chartplotters are for small boats too! We bought a Raymarine Radar / Chartplotter SL72plus for $1400 US at Defender. We primarily use the radar but also use the chartplotter as cockpit redundency. You don't need the latest and greatest. These things can be added and not break your wallet.
Hand Held Way More Than You Need
I've flown all the way across the US with Only charts a compass and a watch. Columbus and Cook did not even that much and did OK as well. All doo dads are cool and help but not really needed.
I've flown all the way across the US with Only charts a compass and a watch. Columbus and Cook did not even that much and did OK as well. All doo dads are cool and help but not really needed.
fogged out
When sailing Lake Michigan off of Racine, WI years ago the worst weather was fog. We found on many days before GPS the only way home was to watch the depth and a chart and guess the location, come in close to shore to make a visual ckeck. On really bad days all you could do was move toward the signal horn and keep a sharp look out. Last Thurs. I ran into similar fog here on the Gulf of Mexico and with a handheld GPS on the map setting it was a breeze. I knew exactly where the boat was and how to come into the channel. I am using a Magellan Meridian Gold. Normally I don't even turn it on, but it's good to know it's there when needed.
When sailing Lake Michigan off of Racine, WI years ago the worst weather was fog. We found on many days before GPS the only way home was to watch the depth and a chart and guess the location, come in close to shore to make a visual ckeck. On really bad days all you could do was move toward the signal horn and keep a sharp look out. Last Thurs. I ran into similar fog here on the Gulf of Mexico and with a handheld GPS on the map setting it was a breeze. I knew exactly where the boat was and how to come into the channel. I am using a Magellan Meridian Gold. Normally I don't even turn it on, but it's good to know it's there when needed.
Lat Lon and Charts w/only numerical GPS Outputs
One of the possible misconceptions about using an older or less sophisticated GPS is the degree of difficulty of using charts with just the lat lon displays from the GPS. We have an old Magellan Blazer 310. Ancient. Gives me heading (ship's course for comparison to the compass), bearing to the waypoint, distance, speed and time. Don't need anything else. I input the aids to navigation, like buoys, lighthouses, and other specific marks, and use them to triangulate my position. This avoids having to unroll the complete chart to use the edges to find lat lon. Of course, this works well for home or familiar waters. More sophisticated equipment could well be useful, as described above, for unfamiliar waters, since it gives you a chart right at hand with the GPS regardless of how you address the equipment side of the work effort. If you sail in the same place all the time, why do you need bells & whistles? If not, consider them carefully, there are lots of options out there. Good luck, this is really interesting stuff. Stu
One of the possible misconceptions about using an older or less sophisticated GPS is the degree of difficulty of using charts with just the lat lon displays from the GPS. We have an old Magellan Blazer 310. Ancient. Gives me heading (ship's course for comparison to the compass), bearing to the waypoint, distance, speed and time. Don't need anything else. I input the aids to navigation, like buoys, lighthouses, and other specific marks, and use them to triangulate my position. This avoids having to unroll the complete chart to use the edges to find lat lon. Of course, this works well for home or familiar waters. More sophisticated equipment could well be useful, as described above, for unfamiliar waters, since it gives you a chart right at hand with the GPS regardless of how you address the equipment side of the work effort. If you sail in the same place all the time, why do you need bells & whistles? If not, consider them carefully, there are lots of options out there. Good luck, this is really interesting stuff. Stu
Mapping GPS
Kevin, This has been quite a lively topic - I use a laptop with Offshore Navigator from Maptech. I also have a Garmin 76MAP S model. I sail at night on Lake Mead in Nevada, charter often in places I'm not familiar with including Florida. When I charter larger boats I take these tools with me so I can spend more time enjoying the environment and less time plotting and planning courses. The safety margin is priceless. I have three GPS units with me all the time. I have an Earthmate GPS for the laptop and a Garmin 76 and 76 MAP S with lots of batteries. Little chance that three would fail. So the answer to your question can only be framed in terms of where you sail, your willingness to spend money, your desire for convenience and personal preference. I wouldn't sail at night in Florida without some mapping GPS instrument. I practice my skills with charts and hand bearing compass often enough to be able to use them if I need to. I hope all these comments and mine have helped you. Remember that buying a mapping GPS is just the start - you have to buy charts and keep them current or you could be worse off. Always study the paper chart or electronic chart with lots of detail before sailing in waters that could be hazardous.
Kevin, This has been quite a lively topic - I use a laptop with Offshore Navigator from Maptech. I also have a Garmin 76MAP S model. I sail at night on Lake Mead in Nevada, charter often in places I'm not familiar with including Florida. When I charter larger boats I take these tools with me so I can spend more time enjoying the environment and less time plotting and planning courses. The safety margin is priceless. I have three GPS units with me all the time. I have an Earthmate GPS for the laptop and a Garmin 76 and 76 MAP S with lots of batteries. Little chance that three would fail. So the answer to your question can only be framed in terms of where you sail, your willingness to spend money, your desire for convenience and personal preference. I wouldn't sail at night in Florida without some mapping GPS instrument. I practice my skills with charts and hand bearing compass often enough to be able to use them if I need to. I hope all these comments and mine have helped you. Remember that buying a mapping GPS is just the start - you have to buy charts and keep them current or you could be worse off. Always study the paper chart or electronic chart with lots of detail before sailing in waters that could be hazardous.
I have an iPAQ Pocket PC
that I can download charts to from my PC using the Fugawi software from Northport Systems. The PDA has a very small GPS that it talks to using Bluetooth wireless. I was actually quite impressed how easy the screen on the PDA was to read. The neat part of it is you take the PDA off the mothership to the dinghy and still navigate. The PDA also has streetmap software so you can also use it on land to find the marine stores and restaurants.
that I can download charts to from my PC using the Fugawi software from Northport Systems. The PDA has a very small GPS that it talks to using Bluetooth wireless. I was actually quite impressed how easy the screen on the PDA was to read. The neat part of it is you take the PDA off the mothership to the dinghy and still navigate. The PDA also has streetmap software so you can also use it on land to find the marine stores and restaurants.
Garmin GPS Map 76
I have a Garmin GPS Map 76. It is amazing because I can navigate anywhere I need to go. Take a look at that unit....it is a great tool!
I have a Garmin GPS Map 76. It is amazing because I can navigate anywhere I need to go. Take a look at that unit....it is a great tool!
Phiggins, some questions
1. Which Ipaq? 2. which GPS sensor? 3. What are your experiences in using this system? 4. How well does it work in rough seas? Ie: can you operate it (and read it) if you are bouncing around? 5. Battery life / power sources? 6. Any regrets?
1. Which Ipaq? 2. which GPS sensor? 3. What are your experiences in using this system? 4. How well does it work in rough seas? Ie: can you operate it (and read it) if you are bouncing around? 5. Battery life / power sources? 6. Any regrets?
Patrick iPAQ questions
1. Which Ipaq? Its the 4155 (I think, I'll confirm that tomorrow at work). 2. which GPS sensor? See link. I bought the iPAQ and the navigation software as a package from HP. 3. What are your experiences in using this system? I had to help a friend bring his boat back from Trenton to Cobourg last summer. It worked very well in some of the trickier passages where there is shallow water and the channel is not obvious. 4. How well does it work in rough seas? Ie: can you operate it (and read it) if you are bouncing around? During the same trip, when we got in Lake Ontario it was very rough. Had no trouble reading the iPAQ. You can get also get a Rugged Wireless Case to protect your iPAQ Pocket PC in outdoor and marine navigation environments. I don't have one. 5. Battery life / power sources? The iPAQ comes with an active sync cradle that attaches to the PC to download to the iPAQ. It also charges the iPAQ at the same time. It also has a DC connector to plug into lighter socket on boat or car. The GPS can be recharged from either source. The GPS last for about 8 hours of continuous use, The iPAQ about four. 6. Any regrets? Only the price. Other software on the iPAQ besides the Fugawi and Automobile navigation software that I have: - CtTide for tides and current - Pocket Stars - shows you all the stars and can input Sextant information to do the calculations. - Pocket Word and Pocket Excel - Microsoft reader - to read soft copy books. - WIFI support as well as Bluetooth so I can surf the net if I'm near my wireless router or someone else's if they haven't protected it. I just upgraded the SD card to 512M. It comes with a 64M which limits the number of maps you can download. I also found that even with the larger SD card, I could't download large maps like say Lake Ontario. But the download software allows you to cut a piece of the map for download. So to get all of the Lake it may take several pieces. By the way, I should tell you I do work for HP (at least for another 6 months then I retire) but have nothing to do with selling any of their software or hardware. I worked 28 years at IBM then took early retirement and went to work for a bank which outsourced its IT. After 8 years HP acquired the company so I had no choice. My heart is still IBM, not HP, true blue.
1. Which Ipaq? Its the 4155 (I think, I'll confirm that tomorrow at work). 2. which GPS sensor? See link. I bought the iPAQ and the navigation software as a package from HP. 3. What are your experiences in using this system? I had to help a friend bring his boat back from Trenton to Cobourg last summer. It worked very well in some of the trickier passages where there is shallow water and the channel is not obvious. 4. How well does it work in rough seas? Ie: can you operate it (and read it) if you are bouncing around? During the same trip, when we got in Lake Ontario it was very rough. Had no trouble reading the iPAQ. You can get also get a Rugged Wireless Case to protect your iPAQ Pocket PC in outdoor and marine navigation environments. I don't have one. 5. Battery life / power sources? The iPAQ comes with an active sync cradle that attaches to the PC to download to the iPAQ. It also charges the iPAQ at the same time. It also has a DC connector to plug into lighter socket on boat or car. The GPS can be recharged from either source. The GPS last for about 8 hours of continuous use, The iPAQ about four. 6. Any regrets? Only the price. Other software on the iPAQ besides the Fugawi and Automobile navigation software that I have: - CtTide for tides and current - Pocket Stars - shows you all the stars and can input Sextant information to do the calculations. - Pocket Word and Pocket Excel - Microsoft reader - to read soft copy books. - WIFI support as well as Bluetooth so I can surf the net if I'm near my wireless router or someone else's if they haven't protected it. I just upgraded the SD card to 512M. It comes with a 64M which limits the number of maps you can download. I also found that even with the larger SD card, I could't download large maps like say Lake Ontario. But the download software allows you to cut a piece of the map for download. So to get all of the Lake it may take several pieces. By the way, I should tell you I do work for HP (at least for another 6 months then I retire) but have nothing to do with selling any of their software or hardware. I worked 28 years at IBM then took early retirement and went to work for a bank which outsourced its IT. After 8 years HP acquired the company so I had no choice. My heart is still IBM, not HP, true blue.
Garmin GPS V Deluxe
I first used my Garmin V Deluxe handheld GPS for my auto. My son showed me that his, using standard street maps, still had our local bay and coastal information. Bought the Blue Chart and have been very satisfied. I use it in coastal and Gulf of Mexico sailing in the Mississippi and Louisiana areas. The good part is I can still use in in land travel. S/V Zydeco
I first used my Garmin V Deluxe handheld GPS for my auto. My son showed me that his, using standard street maps, still had our local bay and coastal information. Bought the Blue Chart and have been very satisfied. I use it in coastal and Gulf of Mexico sailing in the Mississippi and Louisiana areas. The good part is I can still use in in land travel. S/V Zydeco
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