Hand held Radio ?

BarryL

.
May 21, 2004
1,013
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 409 Mt. Sinai, NY
Hi,

Wow, lots of good information has been provided.

Here are my thoughts, and what *I* do (which may not work for you):
I always wear an inflatable PFD
I almost always have a hand held VHF connected to the PFD waist belt

My sailing consists of a few different types:

Casual day sails and weekly (casual) yacht racing. - For this I wear a lightweight simple inflatable PFD and I carry a Standard Horizon HX40. I like the HX40 because it is very small, light and has an FM radio as well as VHF. That radio works well for hailing marinas, other close by boats, etc. This sailing is in the Long Island Sound, where I am never that far from land and there are usually boats within 5 miles of me.

Distance Racing - This will include sailing in the ocean, and may be far from land, and will include overnight sailing. I wear a Spinlock Vito deckvest and I carry a Standard Horizon HX890. This is the radio mentioned above and includes GPS, DSC, and distress functions. It's on the larger side, but I like the comfort of having the distress function. The Spinlock Vito is not nearly as comfortable as my other vest but it includes a light, tether attachment point, leg straps, etc.

Two years ago I participated in a Safety At Sea seminar. This included entering a pool in full foul weather gear, with PFD. To make mine more realistic I included my SH HX860 (predecessor to the HC890). I jumped in the pool, my vest inflated, and I comfortably floated around the pool. I wanted to make a VHF call to see how well it worked. The radio was tethered to my vest. I unclipped it, but found the tether was not long enough for me to hold the radio to my face - the bladder on the vest was too large for me to use the radio. I was able to disconnect it and I successfully made a radio call. I put the radio in my jacket pocket because we were doing some in water survival drills. During one of the drills the radio came out of my pocket, AND SANK to the bottom of the pool. I retrieved the radio after the drill. It was full of water and never worked again. So lessons learned. You need to practice your skills and make it as realistic as possible. The SH 860 was probably 8 years old and the gaskets must have deteriorated. Anyway, I will be testing all of my gear at least every few years.

I'm preparing for some more longer distance off shore trips so I will be upgrading my emergency gear. Maybe a PLB or EPIRB or something else. The market is rapidly changing. AIS is great, but not usefull offshore where there are few boats. The 121 and 406 mHZ radios are good, but can't contact close boats. Decisions Decisions.

Barry
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,106
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
At least we’re gettin past marketing BS and I thank posters for their contributions. As with any good inquiry the answers engender more and better questions.
 
Jun 11, 2004
1,646
Oday 31 Redondo Beach
...I included my SH HX860 ... the radio came out of my pocket, AND SANK to the bottom of the pool. I retrieved the radio after the drill. It was full of water and never worked again......The SH 860 was probably 8 years old and the gaskets must have deteriorated. Anyway, I will be testing all of my gear at least every few years.
Good real life test.

What was the waterproof rating of the HX860, how deep was the pool and how long was it in?

The HX 870 was rated
  • Submersible IPX8 waterproof rating (1.5M or 4.92 feet for 30 minutes)
So even if new it might not have survived.
 
Jun 11, 2004
1,646
Oday 31 Redondo Beach
Thanks for the info

Yes, they both broadcast in the VHF range, however, transmitting data is more efficient than transmitting voice.
I agree but I was mainly interested in the DSC vs AIS data transmission.


Additionally the MOB1 is designed to have the antenna more or less vertical while floating in an inflatable, the handheld requires a conscious effort to hold the antenna vertical.
Good point, especially if you are unconscious after going overboard.

The AIS signal will continue to broadcast until the battery runs out or it is shut off.
That's a big point. I think the MOB1 will broadcast for 24 hours which I assume is longer than the radio will broadcast DSC, particularly if you are trying to use voice communication at the same time.
I think the big difference here is that the MOB1's battery will be held in reserve until called on where the handheld VHF might already be partially depleted when you go over.

In any case, with the VHF, there is a certain comfort that you might be able to have voice communication in addition to the DSC distress signal.
 
Jun 17, 2022
76
Hunter 380 Comox BC
Lots of good info above...

A handheld radio has very little effective range when used from the water. Your best bet is probably an AIS man over board device if you sail with others or a PLB if you sail solo. A good SOLAS approved inflatable lifejacket will also go a long way (leg straps, spray hood, light, reflective tape) towards your survival and making you easy to locate.
 
Jun 11, 2004
1,646
Oday 31 Redondo Beach
A handheld radio has very little effective range when used from the water. Your best bet is probably an AIS man over board device if you sail with others ...
It sounds like you are saying that a man overboard AIS device has better range than the DSC signal from a handheld VHF? Can you help me out by showing something that shows that?
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,517
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Range is affected by multiple factors, the primary factor is line of sight, followed by antenna orientation and propagation, type of signal (analog/voice or data), and power.

A handheld at water level will have limited range because of line of sight and then antenna orientation, it will need to be held vertically which can be a challenge while floating on your back in an inflated life jacket. Since AIS and DCS are both data there should be little difference in range. Voice communication will have less range than either DSC or AIS as it takes more power to transmit voice than data.
 
  • Like
Likes: marcham

BarryL

.
May 21, 2004
1,013
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 409 Mt. Sinai, NY
Hi,

Typo on my part, my previous radio was an HX870. According to Standard Horizon, the HX870 should float:

HX870 - FLOATING” 6 Watt Handheld VHF with internal GPS receiver

Since mine sank, the only explanation is that the gaskets failed, which allowed water into the radio, causing it to sink and fail. BTW I returned the radio to SH. They examined it, came to the same conclusion, and also stated it was not worth repairing. They also sent me a $50 rebate to be used on a new radio (which turned out to be the HX890).

I supposed I should test the radio each year(?) by seeing if it floats?

Barry

Good real life test.

What was the waterproof rating of the HX860, how deep was the pool and how long was it in?

The HX 870 was rated
  • Submersible IPX8 waterproof rating (1.5M or 4.92 feet for 30 minutes)
So even if new it might not have survived.
 
Jun 17, 2022
76
Hunter 380 Comox BC
It sounds like you are saying that a man overboard AIS device has better range than the DSC signal from a handheld VHF? Can you help me out by showing something that shows that?
Correct ... when correctly installed (on the highest part of the inflated lifejacket when in the water) the digital signal just has to send one successful packet to alert a boat it has activated. Normally, that will be when the boat is still relatively close. The AIS device sends about 8 messages per minute. The DSC MOB device sends a message every few minutes. Needless to say, the AIS MOB is the only way to go. You have nothing to do, it activates automatically.

The other issue with handheld radios in the water is the audio gets garbled. Some radios have a mode to clear the mic/speaker of water. However, talking on a radio with your head right at water level, while maintaining the radio out of the water is a real challenge. Now try that with any sea state above 1. It also doesn't tell anyone where you are (unless it has DSC and a GPS signal). Who wants to carry a heavy/bulky VHF radio constantly on their lifejacket? On a sailboat, it will constantly get in the way of things.

Handheld radios work relatively well with a ship alongside the PIW (Person In Water) or to a helicopter / aircraft above. The work poorly if at all from the water to a boat just hundreds of meters away.

AIS MOB device is the clear winner. AIS MOB with built in PLB is an even better solution if you sail solo.
 
Jun 11, 2004
1,646
Oday 31 Redondo Beach
Correct ... when correctly installed (on the highest part of the inflated lifejacket when in the water) the digital signal just has to send one successful packet to alert a boat it has activated. Normally, that will be when the boat is still relatively close. The AIS device sends about 8 messages per minute. The DSC MOB device sends a message every few minutes. Needless to say, the AIS MOB is the only way to go. You have nothing to do, it activates automatically.

The other issue with handheld radios in the water is the audio gets garbled. Some radios have a mode to clear the mic/speaker of water. However, talking on a radio with your head right at water level, while maintaining the radio out of the water is a real challenge. Now try that with any sea state above 1. It also doesn't tell anyone where you are (unless it has DSC and a GPS signal). Who wants to carry a heavy/bulky VHF radio constantly on their lifejacket? On a sailboat, it will constantly get in the way of things.

Handheld radios work relatively well with a ship alongside the PIW (Person In Water) or to a helicopter / aircraft above. The work poorly if at all from the water to a boat just hundreds of meters away.

AIS MOB device is the clear winner. AIS MOB with built in PLB is an even better solution if you sail solo.
I get what you are saying. Although I still don't see anything that says AIS actually has a better range than DSC, the AIS transmission has a better chance of getting out because it transmits 8 time a minute or so and therefore may have a better chance of being sent at the crest rather than the valley of a swell. Good info. Thanks.

I haven't asked about how well voice communications work from a handheld in the water or how bulky they may be.