Halyards on Furled sails

[Don Guillette]

Nodak7: Here's another reason why it might be a good idea to follow Sandpiper10471 advise, and to conclude as you have, to just set the halyard and forget it. As the wind pipes up it pushes the draft position aft and in effect powers up the sail, which in some cases is the exact opposite of what you want to happen. To compound the problem, if you're messing around and easing the halyard you're making a bad situation worse - the draft position will move farther aft and really power up the sail.

Hopefully, you're at about a 45% draft position at full hoist, which is a good cruising setting. If the wind does pipe up the draft position will go to maybe 50%, which is still OK. It has to be OK on your boat because you've got nowhere to go anyway since the halyard is at full hoist.

Last week I was talking to a sailor I met last year at the Lake Havasu Small Boat Convention about the jib halyard on his Monty17 and the difficulty he was having adjusting draft position on his jib. He was thinking of using mast rake in place of the halyard. That was not a good idea. The boat would think he picked up the mast and moved it aft and weather helm would result. The draft position would change a bit but the sailor would wonder where the weather helm was coming from. Since there was nothing he could do about draft position on his jib in the first place, my advise to him was just forget about it and concentrate on mastering draft depth, twist and angle of attack.

His question did bring up an interesting aspect. A mate has to know what every sail trim control for the main and jib is adjusting. Some times mates push or pull a control and get an effect opposite of what they were expecting. It's like this - you slam the shift of a sports car into second and floor the accelerator and then proceed to pull up the emergancy brake.

 

[rstewart]

When is the last time you removed your headsail from the furler's foil? You might try rigging a cleaning trolley to run up down the groove, you could apply some dry lubricant the same way.

I have Shaeffer in boom furling. The main is connected to the mast by a bolt rope that fits in a track that runs the length of the luff. It is similar to the groove in a headsail track. Reducing friction is critical to making it easier to raise and lower the sail. You mention using a trolley to lubricate the track. Have you ever seen one? I'd like to try using a trolley saturated with Sailkote. Any ideas on how to do it?

Rick Stewart
Moon Eye, C380
#51

 

[Sam Salter]

To clean the foil track I use a short (12 in) piece of luff tape (#6 in my case) with a grommet in both ends. At the start of the season I run it up the foil a few times with Sailcote on it.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

I'm not sure anyone really answered your question, but I breezed throught the answers. On either the mainsail or the headsail, tightening the luff (whether with the halyard or cunningham <main>) brings the draft forward. Loosen the luff and the draft goes aft. On the mainsail, tightening the foot (with the outhaul), brings the draft up and loosening the foot brings the draft down. On a headsail, tightening the luff (which brings the draft forward), gives the leading edge more power which is great for powering through waves, for instance, or for close reaching, but it doesn't help windward performance. Loosening the luff on a genoa brings the draft aft and hence flattens the leading edge of the sail (the luff) and hence increases the potential to sail closer to the wind (more close-hauled) because you have a flatter (finer) entry. Usually when the wind pipes up you want to tighten everything, which flattens the sail (along with a harder vang), but if there is a mistake most of us make, it is over tightening. If you are racing and the boat just doesn't seem to be sailing as fast as you can expect, then try loosening the halyard tensions. Sometimes the boat will just seem to relax and increase in speed because before you simply had too much tension on the sails. "When in doubt, let it out", is a good rule of thumb. If the leading edge of the sails start to curl unnaturally, that is called a tension curl and it indicates your halyard is way too tight. You must ease until that goes away and the entry of the sail is smooth (whether or not the draft is forward or more aft). If you are sailing in super heavy winds, then you want very flat sails (lots of luff and foot tension) and have the vang on hard, the backstay adjuster on hard and the traveler to leeward. Usually, in normal sailing conditions, you want both headsail tell tales to be flowing straight aft (on both sides of the sail), but in very heavy air you can feather the boat into the wind so that the inside telltale is straight up and the outside one is flowing straight back. Most of the work is in the helmsperson's hands in that they have to keep up with the wind shifts and keep that boat pointed into the wind to keep control. If you fall off, you will get knocked down and someone has to release the headsail sheet, or dump the main (but easing the traveler is done before you dump the main) and easing the vang helps too. But, you can really control the boat in heavy stuff if you feather the boat properly. Also, in heavy air you want to bring the genoa lead forward which will also open up the top end of the sail, which helps depower the rig. The genoa lead adjustment is sort of like the foot of the sail adjustment. In normal situations you want the entire luff of the sail to break at the same time when you gradually point the boat into the wind. If the bottom breaks first, then the lead is too far aft and if the top breaks first, the lead is too far forward. Put it in the right spot and the entire luff of the headsail will break at the same time. You will then see that the headsail is flatter throughout and not hanging (bulging) over the lifelines.

 

[Joe]

I have Shaeffer in boom furling. The main is connected to the mast by a bolt rope that fits in a track that runs the length of the luff. It is similar to the groove in a headsail track. Reducing friction is critical to making it easier to raise and lower the sail. You mention using a trolley to lubricate the track. Have you ever seen one? I'd like to try using a trolley saturated with Sailkote. Any ideas on how to do it?

Rick Stewart
Moon Eye, C380
#51

You could make one with a spare sail slug.... halyard and downhaul attached to the loop, a cleaning rag tied or glued to the slug. Experiment with the cleaning rag size and connection at lowest level, so you can remove and alter it easily before sending it all the way up. Have you ever cleaned a gun? Same principle except the barrel is longer and you can't use a pushrod.

A piece of rope, with flemish eyes on either end, could be pulled up and down and probably work just as well. But, I think some kind of cloth, rather than a hard rope, would clean better. Perhaps lashing cloth around the rope would be the answer.

 

[Joe]

I'm not sure anyone really answered your question, but I breezed throught the answers............

I guess you missed the part where he said he had Don's book and had read it...... the question was about the feasibility of halyard adjustments with roller furling gear....