Halyard knot for 'modern' fiber

kpgraci

kpgraci

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Jun 12, 2010
936
Oday 22 Orleans Marina, NOLA
Finally getting around to replacing halyards with line I purchased over a year ago for that purpose. After some research I got some quality low stretch rope, I think it is sta-set X but don't remember exactly.

Anyway, using my trusty 'Animated Knots' app I found a halyard hitch which looks fabulous but they warn it is not suitable for use with 'modern' fiber ropes, their reasoning a bit unclear but perhaps because trimming and melting the end is not possible with some fibers.

So to the point, what is an appropriate hitch for attaching a halyard to a shackle using a low stretch sta-set X type of line?
 
Gunni

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
They are referring to the no-stretch slippery ropes made of Dyneema and such. Sta-Setx has a polyester cover and holds a knot well.
 
Jackdaw

Jackdaw

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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Core-dependent line can accept a halyard knot if the cover is present.

If the line is un-covered, or is just dyneema it's a little riskier because the dyneema is so slippery.

Dyneema can be fused with a good hot knife. Covered dyneema does not fuse well because the polyester and Dyneema have different melting temperatures, and will not fuse together.
 
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kpgraci

kpgraci

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Jun 12, 2010
936
Oday 22 Orleans Marina, NOLA
Okay, I'm pretty sure it's sta-set which is polyester, so not so 'modern'. Perfect.
 
Jackdaw

Jackdaw

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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
FYI -

If you have a core-dependent line (meaning dyneema core under a polyester cover), it is MUCH MUCH better to de-cover it and put in an eye-splice in the core. Thats usually good for about 80% of straight breaking load.

Tie any knot and typically the cover breaks and the dyneema slips through, starting at about 35%!!
 
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Jackdaw

Jackdaw

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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Brian S

Brian S

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Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
Jackdaw said:
Did Evans actually recommend that hitch for uncovered dyneema?
Click to expand
He developed it, more or less. Was figuring out all kinds of ways to use the knot to trap the bitter end so that it didn't pull out under load.
 
Gunni

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
I use some hitches similar to that to tie off my amsteel lifting bridle on my dinghy shackles. Granted it isn't a halyard load, but they have held a very dynamic load with a 100lb outboard for years. A test of amsteel for UV and knot holding.
 
S

SFS

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Aug 18, 2015
2,070
Currently Boatless Okinawa
Jackdaw said:
Did Evans actually recommend that hitch for uncovered dyneema?
Click to expand
Don't know about that specific hitch and Evans' testing, but the general issue of knots in dyneema is discussed in a long CF thread (17 pages) about Zeppelin bends. Beginning at post 232 (on page 16), Evans' name comes up with respect to his testing of various knots in Dyneema. A couple of the posters dug pretty deep in various archives, including Evans', to answer the question about what will slip or not slip in dyneema (this link picks up the discussion at post 233, but I recommend you start one post earlier for context):

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ng-to-sliced-bread-128727-16.html#post2361365

Edit: the takeaway, if you don't want to go look, by a poster called SeaWorthy Lass (italics added for differentiation):
"The knots that I know Evans tested in dyneema that slipped were the Bowline, Buntline, Sheet bend, Double Sheet bend and Double Fishermans. The Figure 8 held, as did the Figure 9, Water Bowline and a version of the Bowline with a tucked tail (I don't know if that was the Yosemite finish). Plus the EStar hitch, which is a modified Buntline. These all broke at 40-50% of line strength (EStar was 54%).
Edited to add: Unlike the tests in double braid polyester, diameter of the dyneema tested was not specified as far as I can tell.
Note: As diameter is increased, slippage is more likely to occur."
 
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Joe

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,011
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Okay, back to the original poster's inquiry on his NE sta set X, (not regular sta set), ..... because there are many opinions on that particular line... this line has a "parallel" core.... not braided...it's wrapped in a filament paper that gives it some extra strength over same diameter braided core... so for essentially the same price you get a bit more strength...

Downside... and it's a huge one... is that it is very difficult to splice... because of the core.. I know because I gave it a shot... PIA....
The other downside is that it didn't come in solid colors, and picks up dirt easily... in fact when I bought mine to replace a halyard it only came white with red tracers... I think they've added a few more tracer colors over the years.. The final downside for me was that the line was not comfortable in the hand ... it was a little stiff..and after a few years being outside... there was practically no flexibility or softness... hard as a rock...... so I'd never recommend it for sheets.

With Sta-Set X I'd definitely go with the halyard knot or buntline hitch... don't drive yourself crazy trying to splice in an eye.
 
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