Halyard inside mast but not supposed to be! Please help

[CNein001]

Please help! I have owned my 1976 Cal 2-27 for about five years but just have not gotten around to fixing it up. The time is now to bring it back.

1) I am about 95% sure that the main halyard is supposed to be exterior, but please educate me if this is not true.

2) What would cause the halyard to fall inside the mast? How can I get it out and is this a common problem?

Thank you for your answers, I have been sailing plenty of times, but have not worked on a boat in some time.

Chris

 

[Alan]

Most halyards are run inside and up through the mast, over a sheave and out to the head of the sail. As the sail is lowered the halyard, of course, comes down with the sail. The tail end (other end) of the halyard can be at the base of the mast or lead back to the cockpit. This end usually will have a stopper knot tied in it to prevent it from being accidentally pulled through the mast. If your halyard broke it would invariably fall inside the mast. In this case you will need to run a new one.

 

[Mike Turner]

Hi, Chris -

I did some Internet research on the Cal 2-27 before responding to your post, since I've seen a couple but couldn't recall whether or not the halyards are internal or external. I also read the old Practical Sailor review of the boat. None of the references I found, though, said if the halyards were internal vs. external.

Since the mast is deck-stepped, here's one way to tell: if the halyards are internal, then there has to be some sort of exit for the lower end of the halyards somewhere on the mast. It would most likely be a slot or gate of some type. It could be a little ways up the mast (but certainly below the spreaders), if your halyards are rigged to be hoisted at the mast; or it's possible it could be down by the base of the mast, particularly if your boat is set up with the halyard running back to the cockpit. I had a Catalina 30 once that was set up with internal halyards that way - it was a custom mast set-up, not the original.

If you don't see an exit slot for the halyard, then the halyards would have to be external. The original spars for the Cal 2-27 were made by either SuperSpar or Kenyon, and the Kenyon masthead setup had 4 halyard sheaves (two foward side-by-side, two aft) to allow for two halyards, side-by-side. There was some good info and pictures on this at the rigrite.com website (standard disclaimer: no affiliation with rigrite).

If this is how your boat is set up then my guess would be that the halyard was pulled to the top of the mast, and the end then slipped off one of the sheaves and then back down the mast. If that's the case then you'll likely have to either drop the mast, or go to the masthead to run the halyard back through both sheaves. As long as you're doing that, if the masthead has a second set of sheaves, it might pay to go ahead and run either a second halyard, or a messenger line that you could use to run a second halyard if you had to.

BTW, in my research I found quite a bit about the Cal 2-27 on line, including some good rigging info, so I'd recommend you check some of this out if you haven't already done so. In particular I saw mention of wooden spreaders that may need replacement if rot is present, and how to paint/varnish them to prevent and monitor for rot; undersized standing rigging that you might want to upgrade; undersized or non-existent backing plates on deck fittings and hardware; and underpowered engines with some problems getting spare/replacement parts (if outfitted with the original engine). That's just a quick list. Overall the boat seemed to get pretty good ratings.

Hope this helps - it's an armchair answer based on my experience with internal and external halyards on other boats and my research. Hopefully some 2-27 owners will chime in with first hand info. Good luck!

Mike Turner
Lazyjack 32 schooner "Mary'Lis"
Mobile Bay, Alabama

 

[David in Sandusky]

Check your mast

If there are holes in the mast near the bottom for the halyard(s) to exit the mast, and there are blocks to turn the halyard either to a winch and cleat on the mast, or to a winch and cleat on the cabin roof near the cockpit, then the halyard is designed to run inside the mast. See the comments below about getting to th top of the mast. But I have no experience "fishing" a halyard down the mast to the exit hole, so others will have to help you there.

On our '77 h27, however, and on many other, older boats, the halyards are meant to run down outside the mast to a winch and cleat on the mast, or to turning blocks to run the lines back to the cockpit.

In the latter case, you will need to go to the top of the mast to pull the halyard out of the mast, and run it over the proper block and down the mast. If one of your halyards is rigged correctly, you can attach a boatswains chair to the good halyard, and get a friend to haul you up to the top of the mast. If (as I suspect from your post) neither halyard is rigged properly, then you will have to drop the mast to rig the halyard(s).

 

[CNein001]

Thank you for the informative responses.

I do not see anywhere for the halyards to exit the mast, so I think my assumption that my halyards are external is true.

The existing halyards are wire-rope, but I would prefer to switch to all rope if possible. How much trouble would this be?

Thanks again for all the advice.

Chris

 

[CNein001]

This may seem stupid, and please tell me I am dumb for even thinking it, but...

What are the consequences of drilling a small hole into the mast and using that to make my own interior halyard system? i.e. putting the cover on it, running it like a normal interior halyard.

I like the idea of interior halyards a lot more then exterior, but would this have a magor effect on the structural integrity of the mast? I am not interested in racing or anything, just cruising on a river.

Thanks for the help,
Chris

 

[Mike Turner]

If your current system is wire/rope, and the boat was originally set up that way, then it's possible (but not for certain) that you'd have to switch out the masthead sheaves. The correct sheave for wire/rope will have two grooves, one the correct size for the rope, and a smaller groove inside that to carry the wire. In some instances you may be able to use the current sheave in going to an all-rope rode. In other instances you might have to switch out the sheave. When you either go to the mast truck, or drop the mast, compare your new rope diameter to the larger groove in the sheaves - if it fits, then it most likely would be OK.

On your question about converting to internal halyards, you'd not only want to put a hole/slot in the mast but also install a gate with a block for the halyard to ride over as it exits the mast.

Is there a particular reason you want to convert to an internal system? I've had both and in general prefer external halyards, mostly so that I can see the entire line and watch for chafe, etc. On the other hand, it does mean that more of my line is exposed to the sun, than an internal halyard is. I also find that external halyards give me more options of which side of the mast I want to go up, when I go up the mast. But that's just personal preference.

Mike Turner
Lazyjack 32 schooner "Mary'Lis"
Mobile Bay, Alabama

 

[FourPoints]

call the people at http://www.catalinadirect.com/

they should also be able to supply you with any parts you need to make the conversion, assuming of course that you can't find them on this site....


EDIT, I must have skimmed over the OP too quick and thought he had a Catalina 27.... not sure if catalina direct would have appropriate parts for a CAL 27 or not.

 

[Jalepeno]

Most of the good vintage CALs use wire-to-rope halyard externally with two sets of blocks at the mast head. The Jib/Genoa will come the rear of the mast and the Main will come down the front of the mast. I posted the CAL 2-25 manual on this site a couple of years ago. Here is the link to the general CAL site with a copy of the CAL 27 manual.

http://www.richardanderson.net/TechSavvy/CAL_BOATS.html

 

[Bill Roosa]

Wire rope combos normally have the wire run from the sail head (stowed position) up the mast to a sheave, over the top and then about 1/4 of the way down where the wire/rope junction is. The sheaves are sized for wire only as that is all that runs over them. If that is the case you would definitely need new sheaves and possibly a new mast head to handle the wider sheaves.

 

[ablesailor]

wooden spreaders design on a cal 2-27

Is there any more specific info or direction you could offer on the wooden spreaders such as dimensions, etc...? I had one snap on me and need to have some made...thanks!

Hi, Chris -

I did some Internet research on the Cal 2-27 before responding to your post, since I've seen a couple but couldn't recall whether or not the halyards are internal or external. I also read the old Practical Sailor review of the boat. None of the references I found, though, said if the halyards were internal vs. external.

Since the mast is deck-stepped, here's one way to tell: if the halyards are internal, then there has to be some sort of exit for the lower end of the halyards somewhere on the mast. It would most likely be a slot or gate of some type. It could be a little ways up the mast (but certainly below the spreaders), if your halyards are rigged to be hoisted at the mast; or it's possible it could be down by the base of the mast, particularly if your boat is set up with the halyard running back to the cockpit. I had a Catalina 30 once that was set up with internal halyards that way - it was a custom mast set-up, not the original.

If you don't see an exit slot for the halyard, then the halyards would have to be external. The original spars for the Cal 2-27 were made by either SuperSpar or Kenyon, and the Kenyon masthead setup had 4 halyard sheaves (two foward side-by-side, two aft) to allow for two halyards, side-by-side. There was some good info and pictures on this at the rigrite.com website (standard disclaimer: no affiliation with rigrite).

If this is how your boat is set up then my guess would be that the halyard was pulled to the top of the mast, and the end then slipped off one of the sheaves and then back down the mast. If that's the case then you'll likely have to either drop the mast, or go to the masthead to run the halyard back through both sheaves. As long as you're doing that, if the masthead has a second set of sheaves, it might pay to go ahead and run either a second halyard, or a messenger line that you could use to run a second halyard if you had to.

BTW, in my research I found quite a bit about the Cal 2-27 on line, including some good rigging info, so I'd recommend you check some of this out if you haven't already done so. In particular I saw mention of wooden spreaders that may need replacement if rot is present, and how to paint/varnish them to prevent and monitor for rot; undersized standing rigging that you might want to upgrade; undersized or non-existent backing plates on deck fittings and hardware; and underpowered engines with some problems getting spare/replacement parts (if outfitted with the original engine). That's just a quick list. Overall the boat seemed to get pretty good ratings.

Hope this helps - it's an armchair answer based on my experience with internal and external halyards on other boats and my research. Hopefully some 2-27 owners will chime in with first hand info. Good luck!

Mike Turner
Lazyjack 32 schooner "Mary'Lis"
Mobile Bay, Alabama