Halyard hitch vs eye splice in jib halyard (braided line)?

[isaksp00]

OK, I need to shorten the "fat" part of my jib halyard where the eye splice is inside the outer jacket. The supplier sent it with an eye that is about 1 in long, plus the tail goes about another 3 in, maybe 3.5, inside the outer jacket. The H23 has a rather narrow metal fitting that supports the jib sheave, and the splice jams in that fitting (I can see the "clamp" marks on the line) just about where the splice starts. I have been experiencing some furler jamming since I got this new halyard, I think because the halyard cannot be hauled in enough due to that jamming- the shackle can't be hauled in closer than about 4 in toward the sheave opening.
I suppose I could cut the eye off and re-splice, but I don't have a fid and am not sure how short the spliced part can safely be. And while I have spliced 3-strand, no experience with braided.
The other option is to cut off the splice and use a halyard hitch - but I am not sure if this is as safe as (or nearly so) the spliced eye. I am thinking of tying to the shackle using the halyard hitch and temporarily leaving the eye on the end - yeah, it'll be ugly with that 5 in or so hanging off the side, but at least I can test it that way. Seems to me the depth of the hitch knot is maybe 3 times the diam of the line, say a bit over an inch, which would let the halyard get tighter than with the current eye. Since it is pretty easy to lower the jib on the furler, I can always cut off the end with the eye later, assuming it works. I do have a hot knife.
Does anyone have any experience doing this and should the halyard hitch be safe enough?
Peter I

 

[Sanfelice]

Why not reverse the halyard and use the bitter end for for the hitch and keep the splice intact if you don't like the hitch?

 

[isaksp00]

Hmm, not a bad idea - though I'm not sure I want to run a messenger in and then the reversed halyard back through. I just might, though, if I can find the old halyard to use as the messenger.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

I cut the damned shackle off my main sail 10 years ago, and have used a Buntline hitch on the upper grommet ever since. Going on 12,000 miles since. Also on the jib halyard, which DOES still have a shackle. NO way I'll go back to a splice. Uses too much line and can jam in the block at the mast heat.

 

[Tom G P-21]

If you want to try your hand at redoing the splice I recommend you get some 10 ft lengths of sacrificial rope to practice on. I made new halyards last year and taught myself how to splice double braid. After some practice, it was pretty easy, but it took several attempts to get it right. There are some good video's out there showing how it's done.

 

[isaksp00]

IMG_20160518_141944506

• isaksp00
• May 18, 2016

I just rigged it this way, as a trial. See the photo.
You can see how much length the eye splice added, and how much closer in the shackle can now go. If this works well once I do some sailing I'll lower the jib and cut off the eye, leaving maybe about an inch free end from the hitch.

 

[walmsleyc]

A PO rigged my boat with over-sized running rigging everywhere. The halyards were particularly problematic. There was extra chafe at the mast base exit block. Chafe at the mast head block, and the halyard eye slice would really bind when it entered the mast head sheave.

Since owning the boat, I have replace just about every line. In many cases, using Class II line (strength comes from the core only). For halyards, this dramatically reduces the amount of stretch I get. Further, I stripped/tapered the cover from the about 6' back (or more) from the halyard shackles. This ensures that the splice will easily fit in the mast head halyard sheave when at full hoist but still provides chafe protection where it run through other sheaves (mast base, and deck organizer) and clutches.

With the cover stripped off more attention has to be paid to chafing of the exposed core, UV damage, etc.

With this setup, I used a cow hitch to attach the halyard shackles. That way I can easily replace the shackle without cutting or re-splicing. I will never be able to apply anything near the breaking strength of the halyard, so any loss of strength in the cow hitch is relatively insignificant.

Cheers
Chris

 

[mm2347]

Bunt or haylard hitch or much alike. Will not shake out but will untie w/ difficulty. Both will give you added free space between sail head and sheave. As I have used a buntline and became comfortable tieing it I have not missed the shackle at all. The Haylard is prob just as good so its up to you. For me it was the easiest way to gain the sail lift height.

 

[thinwater]

The thing is that strength is not that importaant in a halyard; the line is sized for stretch and the knot will never fail. Might chafe somewhere.

What matters is:
* being able to reach full hoist.
* being able to refresh the wear spots by cutting a few inches off every few years.

So I've got no use for splices in this application. They look pretty but don't help. (The obvious exception is high modulus lines--a completely different kettle of fish.)

 

[Joe]

A PO rigged my boat with over-sized running rigging everywhere. The halyards were particularly problematic. There was extra chafe at the mast base exit block. Chafe at the mast head block, and the halyard eye slice would really bind when it entered the mast head sheave.

Since owning the boat, I have replace just about every line. In many cases, using Class II line (strength comes from the core only). For halyards, this dramatically reduces the amount of stretch I get. Further, I stripped/tapered the cover from the about 6' back (or more) from the halyard shackles. This ensures that the splice will easily fit in the mast head halyard sheave when at full hoist but still provides chafe protection where it run through other sheaves (mast base, and deck organizer) and clutches.

With the cover stripped off more attention has to be paid to chafing of the exposed core, UV damage, etc.

With this setup, I used a cow hitch to attach the halyard shackles. That way I can easily replace the shackle without cutting or re-splicing. I will never be able to apply anything near the breaking strength of the halyard, so any loss of strength in the cow hitch is relatively insignificant.

Cheers
Chris

You'll find that stripping the cover all the way back far enough so that only the core goes through the masthead sheaves will facilitate operation even better. If you're worried about UV .... attach a messenger to the shackle and pull the halyard back into the mast when you leave the boat for any length of time. Finally, I've used the "luggage tag" method to connect core to shackle for many years... works great. Also... if you go this route.. a dyneema cored line will allow a smaller diameter halyard... somewhat compensating for the increased cost of the high tech rope. Also.... most of these dyneema or vectran cored lines have their cores UV treated...

 

[JTulls]

They probably just didn't taper the part of the splice that is buried back into the core. I'd say just cut it and use a knot. You could do a halyard hitch to the shackle or just put the line through the head and tie a stopper, but that knot will get really tight under load.

As for the safety concern, it's usually a good assumption that a knot will reduce the breaking strength of the line by 50% where a splice will typically only reduce it by 25%...but I imagine the line your using is rated well above the loads your halyard would see so it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[isaksp00]

Thanks for all the comments and help. I tied a halyard hitch, leaving the splice hanging off the knot for the time being. I am not worried about safety, as I am sure that there is no way I can use the winches to put enough load on the line to be up to 50% of its breaking strength. Plus, this is a jib on a furler, so even if it failed it would be annoying but not catastrophic (except for getting the end of the halyard back down from the top of the mast). I could always furl if that happened.

 

[thinwater]

Thanks for all the comments and help. I tied a halyard hitch, leaving the splice hanging off the knot for the time being. I am not worried about safety, as I am sure that there is no way I can use the winches to put enough load on the line to be up to 50% of its breaking strength. Plus, this is a jib on a furler, so even if it failed it would be annoying but not catastrophic (except for getting the end of the halyard back down from the top of the mast). I could always furl if that happened.

Bear in mind that the safe working load of rope is about 10x less than the breaking strength. However, that figure is for high-cycle applications, like docklines, and 5x is more reasonable for a halyard IMHO. So you don't want to be loading above about 50% x 20% = 10% of breaking strength. I doubt you are.