Half off your next boat?

[scolil]

Have my own, and belong to a club

I am just as concerned about keeping up my end as I would be about a parnter. I currently have my trailer sailor that I tote around. I enjoy being in command of it. I also belong to a club that does not charge much for dues and has several smaller boats available. They keep their boats functional and clean for the most part so it works out. While I definately enjoy having my own boat, I would certainly consider other options.

 

[Raleigh500]

Need partnership agreement

As a lawyer, I have seen this scenario played out in many ways, usually throgh co-ownership of a vacation home, but the issues are the same with boats and airplanes.In order to avoid trouble, you need a partnership agreement in advance, covering these things:Schedule of use; how it is decided each year Maintenance frequency and scopeSharing of costs and expenses; who pays when?Breakup procedure (usually each partner has a "put" option: if the other won't buy him out, he can insist that the boat then be sold)With respect to breakup procedure, how will the buy-out price be established, and how will a forced sale be handled if it comes to that?

 

[Rich D.]

Living 50/50 now.

I've been around boating all of my life and if one thing remians a constant it's boats sitting unused on their moorings. I really think a typical fleet could be halved and still accomodate everyone - except maybe on July 4th firework nights. But I guess that further illustrates the point - all those boats you see on the 4th are in the water in early June, where are they the rest of the summer? That's not why I decided to go 50/50 though. I had a little 18' dual console OB that I adored, which had a butt in every seat on Fri/Sat/Sun. Remarkably during fueling, cleaning, launching, and maintenance I was especially lonely. We call them "boatsucks" around here. Fortunately it was pretty much all fiberglass, self bailing and sipped gas (@$1.50/gal marina price at the time), so I didn't really mind. Fast forward to a couple of years ago, I wanted to move up to something bigger and more comfortable which requires significantly more fuel and upkeep, so I offered to go halvsies with a very good friend, and so far it's been a 7 out of 10. We trailer, but only my vehicle has the towing capacity. He's single and I have a family, and that really hasn't gotten in the way, but it certainly has the potential. But it certainly is nice to share the gas and maintenance, and have a hand when cleaning time comes. Actually, the biggest problem is he's a "drive it til it's dead" person whereas I say the newer the easier. I would not recommend doing this if it's NOT someone you'd consider family - if you need a contract then walk away, or join one of those communal boating clubs.

 

[Rick D]

Twice

We are 1/10th owners of two boats owned by groups. One is a 1915 22' launch and the other a 24' pontoon. This permits us to boat in other areas and in other conditions at pretty nominal cost. The size of groups is somewhat limited by how many the insurers will permit as operators. Both groups have bylaws, elections, officers and reserve accounts. One has been around for 20 years, the other for one. I wouldn't do it for our big boat since it's a second home. But, for situations where the boat is used for daysailing and weekending, I think it can work out OK. Fractional ownership is in fact being encouraged by some municipalities. I think they think it is a way to broaden public access thereby making it a less 'elite' recreation and perhaps making them feel better (even tho charters and rentals do the same thing maybe better IMHO). Rick D.

 

[gpd955]

Judging by the responses

it works for some and not for others! I like having my boat all to myself (and my family's self) without having to worry about scheduling sail times or worrying about how someone else would react if I did this or that to the boat.I can see the advantages but ot would not work for me! Plus, I would hate to come home to the boat and find a hat hanging on the companionway hatchboards!!!Jack Mannings/v Victim of FateAtlantic City, NJ

 

[Tony DiStefano]

Works for us

Last May (06) we started a 3 man partnership for a 1980 Irwin 37 cc. I set it up and picked the partners based on when their lifstyle would need the boat and their abilities. We split the cost of the boat and monthly dockage insurance etc by 3rds. The boat is in FL we live in NY and MA. We feel the cost is reasonable and we seem to go 2 at a time to work on the boat but each takes his family or friends time to vacation on the boat. We have had no schedule problems or others as we have agreed on how to leave the boat and what is a boat expense and a personal trip expense. I keep the checking account and we go over the costs on a quarterly basis. This works so well I'm doing the same thing with a plane.

 

[wclfol]

No one would want me for a Partner

I love being my own Captain, I couldn't get together with someone. I replace rotted teak and upgrade radios and... No one would ever want to partnership with me.

 

[Guy Schwartz]

Never

No one is going to care for the boat as much as I do. Are they going to want to wax the hull twice a year? Keep the boat as clean? Remove the sucff marks from the hull when their docking gets a little wacky? Take the main sail in and out properly? I took lessons from a club that charters boats. The boats are trash after 5 years. I'm make the full payment and keep my boat bright and shinny. I use it at least once a week too.

 

[newly anonymous]

my boat partner and I...

...will be celebrating our 30th wedding anniversary this August. We manage to avoid the problems most people encounter in boat partnerships by owning a boat with two heads, one for each of us.Wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Karen]

I Think It Can Work With An Agreement

I think it could work. I would do it to buy a boat in an LLC with bylaws and operating procedures, underway checklists, debarking procedures,(so no one gets 'barked' at) etc. I wouldn't do it with my existing boat because I have too much personal attachment. But to buy a boat with that in mind would be nice, I think. Also, all legal stuff would need to be in order as mentioned above. People and situations change, so, those events need to be covered.Wouldnt it be nice to have that dream boat ~~~~~sailing~~~~~sailing~~~~

 

[Raleigh500]

Use contract even with family

"I would not recommend doing this if it's NOT someone you'd consider family - if you need a contract then walk away...."This is a popular sentiment, but I submit that it is misguided. I have seen families split over such sharing agreements precisely because they didn't have a written sharing agreement. I go so far as to say that the need for a written agreement may even be higher with family than it is with close friends. Close friends are usually equals, and their relationship is usually one of mutual respect and good will. Family relationships may be that way too, but many of them have an overlay of past inequality, such as a younger versus an older brother, or a not-quite-resolved lingering issue with an adult child and his or her parents, or there may be in-laws involved who don't buy into the family sense of ethics in some way. The act of creating that agreement forces everyone to talk openly about their ideas and preferences, so there can be no surprises or misunderstandings later.Still another factor that leads to lawsuits concerning shared vacation assets is divorce by one of the parties. If you and your friend are and remain good buddies, but he and his wife divorce, you may find that an unintentional partner to your boat is her divorce lawyer.Sharing vacation assets makes great sense if you have the right ingredients in place to make it work. A written sharing agreement is one of those ingredients.

 

[Orens]

Experience taught me well!!

I've been in 3 partnerships in my life, always in business, and all of them ended in less than an ideal situation. The fact is that I've seen boat partnerships work, and others be a true disaster. As far as I am concerned, it is not for me, not in business or my boat, of which I feel more like a lover than a piece of machinery for my entretainment. I am really particular about neatness and leaving things in better condition than you found it before. One of the biggest gripes my family has about going to the boat, is that at the end of the day or the week end, we all have to put in at least an hour of work making sure that all things are returned to it's rightful place and that all areas of the boat, particularly the head and galley, are impecable. I know that probably would get under a lot of people's skin rather quickly, and I do not want to put up with another individual ideas of how things are going to be done in "MY" boat. Therefore, I have a smaller yet perfectly sized cruiser for my family and I (31'), and I dispense with the need to have a mega yatch with mega bills to worry about, after all I would probably be just as happy with a small daysailor, since truly sailing is all I care about. Obviously the wife and 4 daughters have different standards when it comes to comfort.

 

[Stu Jackson]

O.P.B.

I'm surprised this hasn't popped up yet. "Other People's Boats" - best bet for many. I'm on the "I own the boat" side and a good friend is my sailing buddy. We used to go out regularly on Friday afternoons for four or five years and he recently switched jobs which reduces his sailing time to weekends. He helps do work on the boat almost more than some "partnerships" I am familiar with. Many reports on partnerships I have learned are affected by the "toys" one owner wants and the other feels is superfluous - GPS chartplotter, inverters, new chargers. One says, "The boat sails fine without those toys, I'd rather spend $$ on a new sail." The other likes to take his wife out to anchor and she wants (needs/) her hair dryer. One can't race the boat, even with a full crew, unless both partners are on board. One likes to race, one to cruise, although they were both only cruisers when they started their deal.All sorts of things change over time.It becomes complicated even with a written agreement.I'm very happy having my friend use OPBs, like mine. And I am comfortable with him using the boat on his own. No $$ changes hands (although there are some nice touches he's added, and some tools he's provided, not to mention the hard-to-find ice cube tray for the fridge!!!). I know it's not a financial partnership, but it sure maintains our friendship.

 

[Anchor Down]

Split Decision

(Re-run): The Ricardos and the Mertzes go in together to buy a diner… hilarity ensures.A large part of the satisfaction is lounging in the cockpit at sunset after dropping anchor and knowing that she's all mine. "Doing things my own way" was a big reason I stopped using OPBs and bought my own. I can't imagine a partnership I'd be completely happy with.Oh, btw, for the science-challenged: despite the Hollywood cliché, a clone of you would not be you: he'd be your brother (just as when an egg splits into twins in vitro: every twin is a clone), and would have his own personality and tastes, so there's no gain there as far as guaranteed compatibility in a partner.

 

[cdwindrider]

Need Partnership Agreement!

I have 1-2 partners who want to buy in and share costs. But we need a sample agreement to modify for our partnership. does anyone have an agreement they can share?

 

[Benny]

NO, NO ,NO

I decide when she goes, where she goes and I pay the bills.

 

[Tom H31]

Agreement

My partner (of 18 years) and I used the agreement in "Yachtman's Legal Guide to Co-Ownership" by Dexter and Paula Odin. Yes there have been disagreements, and differences of opinion over the years, but I still believe that co-ownership is all of the enjoyment at half the cost. Beat that!

 

[Ed]

Boat Partnerships!!

The boat I am in the process of purchasing is with a family we are friends with. Essential our partnership as follows:Boat : An older boat that we can re-furbish on the go as necisary to meet the needs for our two young families. Also being an older boat the costs shared by the families for the initial purchase is much lower and in the future is one family wanted to buy out the other it would be an easily achievable option. My End : Financialy : 50% purchase price, moorage, insurance, upkeep expenses and 100% on modifications/upgrades that I beleive are esential. Note : if we both want the upgrade we will share the expense.Time : I will do all the upgrades and perform the general maintenance that can be done by myself without the need of special equipment.(I am a mechanic & tinkerer)His End :50% purchase price, moorage, insurance, upkeep expenses and 100% on modifications/upgrades that he beleives are esential. (He is an electronic toy nut so I will probably be pulling lots of wires).Time : Participation in the larger jobs like annual bottom cleaning etc.Contingency/Usage Fund : Every time our families go out we will put in $20/day. For friends it will be $20/day/adualt not beer! Plus when returned to the dock the fuel tanks (engine & cooking fuels) will be returned to full. We have used this before and after 1 year we had a substantial contingency. If we had carried on like this we would have started some equipment upgrades but I was forced to move away east and we gave up the boat.The time share might be an issue but we have done it before where if I want to go I invite him, and vice-versu. If I want to take a friend out I book it on a day when he does not wish to use it. Communication is key and I think we might look into an office time scheduling program to allow us to schedule things with and around each other. I will also be able to schedule maintenance and repairs around his schedule.One thing I really like about a partnership is the idea of a trade off. I can drive up and meet him somewhere and we can trade off. Extends the possible range of a cruise as each family only performs 1/2 the trip!!One thing that does concern me is insurance and Liability. This is a much bigger boat than last time and we still have to research this a bit.This is our general arangement as it sits now and I believe it is a fair and equal arangement.

 

[novelman17128]

Partnership

I had 3 partners on a new (in 1984) 30' Catalina and everything worked out okay. Except the boat market in 1991 when the boat needed to be sold. Next time I will not go into a partnership, mostly because I will stick to older boats that I can afford. I now have a nice classic 22' Venture that I sail with friends and family whenever I want. Both systens have worked out for me depended on my age, financial situation and how often I use the boat.Novelman

 

[Josef508]

Yes, and so far ... so good!

I bought into a partnership with someone I met at a Strictly Sail show. I now own 1/6 of a Hunter 34, in great condition. We created a full not-for-profet corporation with rules on how to get in, get out (including getting money back) and getting kicked out (with current share of moeny returned). When there is work to do, there are 6 of us to do it, and no need to bribe friends to come and scrape or paint.Additionally, we can team up to bring the boat to new sailing grounds. Such as getting her up to LI Sound from teh Chesapeake, in sort of a relay fashion baltimore to Cape May, the change crews and Cape may to NYC, then each partners spends their time on the sound that year.It works out to more than 8 weeks each, and I none of us has 8 weeks of vacation time. We use Yahoo Group calendar to to keep track of when the boat is available. Having the corporation will annual meetings and elected president makes it a fun time for all.Someday I'll get my own, but until then I'm learning about the different boat systems (I do electric, another is great with engines, another does good wood working, ...) and we all learn from each other on the few scheduled work parties we hold in the Spring & Fall.For me, it is working out very well so far!