Hair Dryer 12V

[Old Skool Neil]

Don,

I remind you again of your own post:

- for one, I don't appreciate anyone making a value judgment about my priorities.

This sounded to me like your priorities were superior to anyone else's within earshot, perhaps I misread the post? If so, apologies, but please explain how else it could be interpreted.

Sadly, as Gail points out, many of us have had unpleasant experiences at the hands of arrogant anchorage neighbors. Maybe that's why we're so opinionated and bristle over the issue. I'm not saying ALL generator operators are this way but enough of them are. Same goes for engine runners. It's a noise and consideration issue and I didn't read any consideration in the above quote.

Sorry. I read 'em and respond.

Gail's post says it better than I ever could. The neighbor who came over, introduced himself and discussed how he could minimize his impact is the kind of neighbor we dream about. It's the consideration.

By the way, I wasn't trying to insult and I'm sorry if you took it that way. If I had I would have said a whole lot more than I did.

How did this topic start out? Hair dryers? Yikes!!

 

[RECESS]

Your needs? Or your wants? Unfortunately, it is a contentious issue because so many of the people who run their generators think it's perfectly okay to run them morning, noon, and night. They turn them on, and either leave the boat so they don't have to listen to them, or they retire down below and crank up the DVD to drown out the hum. Not saying you are among this lot, but many people operate this way.

We were in Northeast Harbor Maine (not Canada) during one cruise and two humongous trawlers from Massachusetts grabbed a couple nearby moorings and proceeded to run their generators for hours. A quick straw poll of the neighbors indicated this would not be acceptable if it continuted. It started to get dark, they were still running them, and one of our party rowed over and asked if they were going to turn them off for the night. Nope, they had to freeze two weeks worth of meat.

So we talked to the harbormaster, who also asked that they shut them down for the night. They refused. Eventually, they were put on docks with shore power for the same price as a mooring. Yes, they were that arrogant that they managed to get dock space PLUS shore power for the mooring price.

At least it was quiet and we didn't have to sacrifice a potato.

OTOH, one time we were tied to the public dock in Camden opposite a big megayacht with two gensets. We were enjoying our "we're here beer" (actually, I think it was a rum drink) when the skipper greeted us, apologized for needing to run generators at all, and explained his plan for mitigating their impact. They'd run the big one during the day (when we planned to be out sightseeing anyway) and switch to the smaller, quieter one on the opposite side of the boat for the night. Of course, neither was the trusty red Honda and they were set up so as to minimize the noise level. We didn't even know they were running, but what we were most impressed with was the skipper going above and beyond to explain everything to us before it became an issue.

If more of the people who "need" to run a generator would at least be considerate about it, the issue would not be so contentious.

I think it will. When you can make a EU 2000 quiet to the point of being unnoticeable and people still want to act holier than thou saying they would never run one at a mooring, it will always be drama. If you cannot hear it, what is there to complain about? All the examples I have seen are not even in the same ball park as the sound a Honda makes. Wouldn't if be better to let people know they can make these gen sets even quieter than they come from the factory, than to lump them all with noisy gen sets?

 

[PrincessoftheLake]

As fussy as I am about my appearance I worry less so on the boat especially if we are away from the marina for a few days. I only wash mine every few days so it's not a big deal. Sometimes in the morning I'll wet it down just to get the kinks out. I always keep a few cute ball caps on the boat to cover up the worst bed head. I can't imagine telling Captain Grumpy we need an inverter for my hair dryer. LOL.

 

[sailingdog]

LOL... a very sensible compromise. Of course ladies have the advantage of being less likely to lose a ball cap, since they can often put a pony tail through the hole in back... which a lot of us follically challenged guys can not.

As fussy as I am about my appearance I worry less so on the boat especially if we are away from the marina for a few days. I only wash mine every few days so it's not a big deal. Sometimes in the morning I'll wet it down just to get the kinks out. I always keep a few cute ball caps on the boat to cover up the worst bed head. I can't imagine telling Captain Grumpy we need an inverter for my hair dryer. LOL.

 

[NotCook]

Now...... I like my fridge, my cold beer, my steaks on the grill, the memory foam in the aft cabin, the DVD, stereo, .......... so really, I can't criticize Bad O for trying to make his fiancée happy and good for him to go out of his way to get someone thats not used to sailing "on board" and make it an activity they'll both enjoy. It's worked for me

I'm with you, brother! And, if my wife wants a hair dryer, I am going to find a way to make one available to her. As much as we spend on other "necessary" items that I "need", I can hardly suggest we don't have anything in the budget if she wants to run a hair dryer.

 

[kenn]

Quiet is priceless.

The Honda measured noise level is 59 dB while that of my engine is measured at 77 dB at the transom (typical of most engine noise levels). Can't figure out why some find the lower Honda noise level more objectionable than the engine's... unless it is perception.

Regarding your q about recharging - we and many others don't always move the boat daily. We sometimes stay a while.

Running an 80 amp alternator at a reasonable RPM produces 20 amps nominal - equates to an engine run time of 10 hours to bring my battery bank up from 50% discharged. Is 10 hours preferable at 77 dB or 1-2 hours at 59 dB?

In case I was mis-understood, I object to the sound of any unnecessary engine running, genset or diesel, at a remote, unspoiled anchorage (other than when someone's underway, obviously). There are plenty of ports, marinas or near-urban anchorages where you won't disturb others with your engine(s), or where you can use shore-power.

A sunset, on a windless evening at a typical Great Lakes non-urban anchorage will hit your B&K SPL meter at about ... 50 dBA? 40 dBA maybe? Depends on the crickets or night peepers, usually.

Ever experienced the kind of evening where you can hear kids chatting around a beach campfire a quarter-mile away?

You won't, if some clown is running their genset.

* * *

I don't have a solution to this issue. I hope we can find mutually agreeable ways to share our anchorages without resorting to legislation, but if my only choice is between legislation to make certain areas engine-free vs engines drowning out the loons, I'll go with legislation.

 

[Gail R]

I think it will. When you can make a EU 2000 quiet to the point of being unnoticeable and people still want to act holier than thou saying they would never run one at a mooring, it will always be drama. If you cannot hear it, what is there to complain about? All the examples I have seen are not even in the same ball park as the sound a Honda makes. Wouldn't if be better to let people know they can make these gen sets even quieter than they come from the factory, than to lump them all with noisy gen sets?

Wouldn't surprise me a bit if the guy on the green power boat in the photo I posted also considered his Honda "unnoticable." A Honda generator running so quietly that it's "unnoticable?" I'll believe it when I don't hear it. Until then, my experience says Honda generators are as noisy as their outboards.

In an ideal world, we could make generation silent for the folks who can't live without their hair dryers, electric coffee pots. microwaves, toaster ovens, and Die Hard movies on their DVDs. I don't think we're there yet.

 

[Patrick17430]

Really ! 4 pages of replies about hair dryers on boats ??????? Throw it overboard and spend the extra $$$ on more rum.

 

[kenn]

Really ! 4 pages of replies about hair dryers on boats ???????

heh. I'll calm down once the boat's launched...

 

[PaulK]

Are generators quiet because they destroy the hearing of those on board? Sounds like it must be the case. As for whether their noise is bothersome to others in an anchorage, that's why all of us always choose to anchor as close to any Interstate bridge as possible: we go sailing to enjoy the noise, and want to surround ourselves with it. If asked, I might be too polite to actually say what I think. But if you can't hear your generator, don't count on hearing any invitation for a drink on board my boat, either.

 

[Anchor Down]

The Sound of Silence

Gail R, she say:
I'll believe it when I don't hear it.

How do you know you haven't already "not heard it" several times?

Maybe you should take up backpacking.

Instead of contemplating legislation to make others behave the way we want, how about developing some common-sense etiquette that allows for people recharging their batteries and still protects folks enjoyment of nature?

The most cherished time for me is early morning, watching it get light while nursing my first cup of Joe. I'd hate to have that spoiled by any kind of noise: generator, engine, music, screaming kids, you-name-it.

I'd like to sit and read a lot, enjoying the solitude, so I love the tranquility as much as anyone. But I also understand that batteries need recharging, including my own. There is no perfect world, outside of those glossy magazine pictures.

So I say run the generator/engine any time from mid-morning to late afternoon. Talk to your neighbors in a congenial manner, and convince them that everyone will enjoy his stay by knowing that they are part of a harmonious interaction with their anchor-mates. Hell, you might even make a friend or two out there (gasp!).

Neighbors have responsibilities toward each other simply by virtue of the fact that they are neighbors.

 

[kenn]

Instead of contemplating legislation to make others behave the way we want, how about developing some common-sense etiquette that allows for people recharging their batteries and still protects folks enjoyment of nature?

The most cherished time for me is early morning, watching it get light while nursing my first cup of Joe. I'd hate to have that spoiled by any kind of noise: generator, engine, music, screaming kids, you-name-it.

I'd like to sit and read a lot, enjoying the solitude, so I love the tranquility as much as anyone. But I also understand that batteries need recharging, including my own. There is no perfect world, outside of those glossy magazine pictures.

So I say run the generator/engine any time from mid-morning to late afternoon. Talk to your neighbors in a congenial manner, and convince them that everyone will enjoy his stay by knowing that they are part of a harmonious interaction with their anchor-mates. Hell, you might even make a friend or two out there (gasp!).

Ah - the old " things would be fine if only everyone agreed with me" argument. You won't be very happy then being next to the guy whose GF likes to take long, hot showers in the early morning (and then the hair-dryer, of course).

How about if you need to charge up, you go for a short sail/motor to do that?

...yeah we've done this topic to death. Only thing I'll add is that we sail to destinations to experience what's there, not what we brought with us. Many of us seek remote anchorages to enjoy the silence that's only available there; whereas a generator and 12VDC/110VAC and TV and A/C and hot showers can be enjoyed just about anywhere.

 

[sailingdog]

If people with generators were considerate enough to only run them from mid-morning to late afternoon, and not all hours of the day and night, there probably would be a lot less negative reaction to people with generators.

Unfortunately, there are quite a few people who see nothing wrong with destroying the peace and tranquility of a remote anchorage with a generator and often with blaring stereos or TVs, which are run off said generator.

 

[Gail R]

Really ! 4 pages of replies about hair dryers on boats ??????? Throw it overboard and spend the extra $$$ on more rum.

Finally. An idea that makes perfect sense!

I'll say it one more time: If your girlfriend can't survive a day on the boat without a long hot shower and hair dryer, dare I say you might have picked the wrong girl? Just sayin'....

Drink more rum and neither of you will care what her hair looks like.

 

[Rick Webb]

I'd Take the Generator Noise Anyday

Over those little yapping dogs that all them old ladies seem to have.

 

[sailingdog]

That's a given, but I haven't seen many old ladies with their yappy dogs in distant anchorages.....

Over those little yapping dogs that all them old ladies seem to have.

 

[Gail R]

Over those little yapping dogs that all them old ladies seem to have.

Yappers are equally annoying. Northeast Harbor (again): A cruising couple left their Schipperke on board while they went ashore to shop/dine/shower. Now I know Schipperkes are supposed to be a good boat dog, and the little guys are darned cute, but that freakin' creature yapped every time someone dinghied by or even dared to look at it.

Thank heavens the old lady yappers seem to be very fewer and farther between than the generators.

 

[sailingdog]

A supersoaker squirt gun or a bridgenorth bailer boathook goes a long way to stopping yappy dogs in an anchorage...

Yappers are equally annoying. Northeast Harbor (again): A cruising couple left their Schipperke on board while they went ashore to shop/dine/shower. Now I know Schipperkes are supposed to be a good boat dog, and the little guys are darned cute, but that freakin' creature yapped every time someone dinghied by or even dared to look at it.

Thank heavens the old lady yappers seem to be very fewer and farther between than the generators.

 

[Patrick17430]

A supersoaker squirt gun or a bridgenorth bailer boathook goes a long way to stopping yappy dogs in an anchorage...

Interesting statement from someone who's screen name is sailingdog.

 

[Phantomsailor]

Wow, has this thread drifted. My wife uses her microwave, toaster oven, hair dryer, and enjoys hot water for her shower. We use a french press for coffee making. She isn't high maintenance but we liveaboard and I feel she should have the same conveniences whether at the dock or at anchor. Why don't we look at some real loads these conveniences require:

Hair dryer - 1500 watts @ 120 VAC = 12.5 Amps
Microwave - 1500 watts @ 120 VAC = 12.5 Amps
Hot water heater - 1200 watts @ 120 VAC = 10 Amps
Toaster Oven - 1200 watts @ 120 VAC = 10 Amps

Amp draw converted to DC amps at nominal 12.5 Volts, assumes inverter efficency at 90%:

Hair dryer - 1500 watts @ 12.5 DC = 132 Amps
Microwave - 1500 watts @ 12.5 DC = 132 Amps
Hot water heater - 1200 watts @ 12.5 DC = 106 Amps
Toaster Oven - 1200 watts @ 12.5 DC = 106 Amps

OK, now amp hours for the above:
Hair dryer - 1500 watts @ 12.5 DC = 132 Amps for 10 minutes = 22 ah
Microwave - 1500 watts @ 12.5 DC = 132 Amps for 3 minutes = 6.6 ah
Hot water heater - 1200 watts @ 12.5 DC = 106 Amps for 20 minutes = 35.3 ah (11 gal capacity - showers for 2)
Toaster Oven - 1200 watts @ 12.5 DC = 106 Amps for 5 minutes = 8.8 ah

Total Amp hours for all these devices = 72.7 ah. So it would seem to me a battery bank of 400 ah or so to allow for a 50% draw down and a 2000 watt inverter would allow us to run theses conveniences. These are worst case because the microwave, water heater, etc. aren't used every day. BTW, these amperages are very close to what I experience aboard our boat when anchored out. Yeah, it is scary to look at the Link battery monitor when the water heater is on and see a 130 amp load!!

Real world experience aboard our boat shows we can easily go over a 3 day weekend and accumulate an amp hour deficit of about 200 to 225 amp hours per our Link battery meter. All without any noise.