Sorry about the cross post (if you read the original post in the Hunter owners forum)... I meant to post the question here... I'm looking to buy a boat in the 28' to 33' range. Not having ever purchased a sailboat, is it similar to buying a car? How much haggling should I expect to do over the price, if any? What is normal for a dealer to throw in? I assume there is a bit of haggling for a used boat, especially based upon time of year and how long the boat has been with the dealer, but what about a new boat? Thanks for the info!
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Haggle but Slowly
They asked $93,000 and we got it for $72,000. Never rush because many boats sit for a long time and their owners get impatient. I can only fear the same when I find myself having to sell my boat. Do your homework first so you can determine the real value. Without knowledge of what it is worth you will waste your time and possibly pay too much. Have Fun!
They asked $93,000 and we got it for $72,000. Never rush because many boats sit for a long time and their owners get impatient. I can only fear the same when I find myself having to sell my boat. Do your homework first so you can determine the real value. Without knowledge of what it is worth you will waste your time and possibly pay too much. Have Fun!
Everything
Haggle the price of everything. Boats are just one example. Paul is right. Let the owner know you're interested in the boat, but not the price, then wait. Its a buyer's market. Its very important to do as much research on specific models you're interested in so that you come to the negotiation as well-equipped as possible. This includes all the basic standard equipment, cost of extra / add-ons / updates the current owner has, cost of things you want that aren't included, "real" market value of the boat. Check http://www.yachtworld.com for used boat prices of similar models. To a great extent, you can discount the value of the current upgrades, but don't overlook the value of new sails or sails in really good condition. As a rule, try to settle around 80% of the asking price and the price of similar models for sale.
Haggle the price of everything. Boats are just one example. Paul is right. Let the owner know you're interested in the boat, but not the price, then wait. Its a buyer's market. Its very important to do as much research on specific models you're interested in so that you come to the negotiation as well-equipped as possible. This includes all the basic standard equipment, cost of extra / add-ons / updates the current owner has, cost of things you want that aren't included, "real" market value of the boat. Check http://www.yachtworld.com for used boat prices of similar models. To a great extent, you can discount the value of the current upgrades, but don't overlook the value of new sails or sails in really good condition. As a rule, try to settle around 80% of the asking price and the price of similar models for sale.
What about new boats?
That's what I was figuring for used boats... should I expect significant discounts off of list for new boats too? I'm still torn between which way to go...
That's what I was figuring for used boats... should I expect significant discounts off of list for new boats too? I'm still torn between which way to go...
Use BUC for used, boatshow specials for new
There's a guidebook called the BUC that has pricing for used boats. It's like the various guides for used cars, and is used by the mortgage and insurance companies. That should get you started. Try to get less than the posted retail value, but also be fair about considering the value of options and add-ons. The BUC is in your library, and also available on line (for a fee?). Just haggling down from the top price is a useless tactic unless you know what the boat is really worth. Used boats don't have a "wholesale" and "retail" value, because brokers charge a direct commission to sell a used boat. For a new boat, I would visit a boat show and check the prices offered as "boat show specials". That should give you an idea of how much you can haggle down (at any time of the year) with almost no effort. Start there and work down, vote with your feet. Boat salesmen are better negotiators than most car salesmen, because they are willing to accept a slower pace, so you be patient, too. They'll get back to you if you're close.
There's a guidebook called the BUC that has pricing for used boats. It's like the various guides for used cars, and is used by the mortgage and insurance companies. That should get you started. Try to get less than the posted retail value, but also be fair about considering the value of options and add-ons. The BUC is in your library, and also available on line (for a fee?). Just haggling down from the top price is a useless tactic unless you know what the boat is really worth. Used boats don't have a "wholesale" and "retail" value, because brokers charge a direct commission to sell a used boat. For a new boat, I would visit a boat show and check the prices offered as "boat show specials". That should give you an idea of how much you can haggle down (at any time of the year) with almost no effort. Start there and work down, vote with your feet. Boat salesmen are better negotiators than most car salesmen, because they are willing to accept a slower pace, so you be patient, too. They'll get back to you if you're close.
DO NOT FORGET THE SURVEY!!
Make any fair and reasonable offer, "contingent on the results of the survey" on a used vessel. The BUC is a very good guide as well as following price trends online (Yacht trader.com and Boattrader.com). A surveyor/broker will even provide local sales histories on boats sold in your area. If you love the vessel and it looks like its what you want, the broker or owner will ask for a deposit (earnest money) before a survey is conducted. Sometimes deposits are required before a sea-trial is provided. The survey is where the money is really saved on items that require repair or replacement. Get a reputable licensed surveyor and BE PRESENT at the survey. I always request that the surveyor look for the expensive items first (standing rigging, damage to deck/hull, engine/transmission, etc, etc) so I can make assessments of dollar outlay and either use that as a negotiation tool or a "deal killer". Just like a car, you never know what is under the skin, although you love that shiney new paint and new BBS wheels! Vessels are no different. Be methodical, take your time, look at several brands and sizes and do your research. Its a major investment and time well spent will pay off in spades. This is a great forum for information and experience....Tap into it. Good luck Bob CAT 30
Make any fair and reasonable offer, "contingent on the results of the survey" on a used vessel. The BUC is a very good guide as well as following price trends online (Yacht trader.com and Boattrader.com). A surveyor/broker will even provide local sales histories on boats sold in your area. If you love the vessel and it looks like its what you want, the broker or owner will ask for a deposit (earnest money) before a survey is conducted. Sometimes deposits are required before a sea-trial is provided. The survey is where the money is really saved on items that require repair or replacement. Get a reputable licensed surveyor and BE PRESENT at the survey. I always request that the surveyor look for the expensive items first (standing rigging, damage to deck/hull, engine/transmission, etc, etc) so I can make assessments of dollar outlay and either use that as a negotiation tool or a "deal killer". Just like a car, you never know what is under the skin, although you love that shiney new paint and new BBS wheels! Vessels are no different. Be methodical, take your time, look at several brands and sizes and do your research. Its a major investment and time well spent will pay off in spades. This is a great forum for information and experience....Tap into it. Good luck Bob CAT 30
brokers own the new boats on the lot
er, in the slip. Often paying mortgage on them. They may want to get them out of their inventory. Look at it this way - if that new boat down at the brokers was such a good deal at the asking price, why haven't they sold it yet?
er, in the slip. Often paying mortgage on them. They may want to get them out of their inventory. Look at it this way - if that new boat down at the brokers was such a good deal at the asking price, why haven't they sold it yet?
I think Joe
boats--we've bought both used and new. Our used boat was a much older boat ('60s), and we researched the going prices of the boats before engaging on ours, as well as doing a lot of research with the PS guide. We also learned if you're selling a boat, brokers have access to what your particular type boat has actually sold for from other brokerages--as opposed to looking at Yachtworld or other source "asking" prices--you might be able to access this from a broker. Altough some sellers may be desperate just to get out from under the boat, I think it's safe to assume most sellers have a bottom-line price they're probably not willing to go below. Our new boat was a "left over" from the Annapolis boatshow--we made an initial offer on her about 6 weeks after the show--our "negotiation" centered on the trade-in price for our (then) current boat, and the addition of a couple other options besides the boat show "special" packages. Basically, they gave us a trade-in value that was probably a bit high for our older boat--that kinda tells you there's at least a few thousand $$ in "breathing" room even on the boatshow special prices. To me it was worth it not having to deal with selling myself--I'm just not into the selling things personally, though I recognize that probably costs me a few $$. We found the brokers VERY willing to work with us--not only the trade-in thing, but doing the financing, at-cost help with addt'l options, even down to finding someone to do the graphics for her name! As a sign of their patience, we didn't actually close on the boat until the following Spring, some 4 months after I wrote the initial check for the "hold" deposit. But in any case, my best advice is enjoy the shopping process!! We had a great time over quite a few weekends visiting brokerages in the weeks following the Annapolis show...spend a nice Fall Saturday without the crowds really checking the boat(s) out, talk about it over dinner somewhere...it's a fun and exciting time. Fair winds, Bill "Ngemelis"
boats--we've bought both used and new. Our used boat was a much older boat ('60s), and we researched the going prices of the boats before engaging on ours, as well as doing a lot of research with the PS guide. We also learned if you're selling a boat, brokers have access to what your particular type boat has actually sold for from other brokerages--as opposed to looking at Yachtworld or other source "asking" prices--you might be able to access this from a broker. Altough some sellers may be desperate just to get out from under the boat, I think it's safe to assume most sellers have a bottom-line price they're probably not willing to go below. Our new boat was a "left over" from the Annapolis boatshow--we made an initial offer on her about 6 weeks after the show--our "negotiation" centered on the trade-in price for our (then) current boat, and the addition of a couple other options besides the boat show "special" packages. Basically, they gave us a trade-in value that was probably a bit high for our older boat--that kinda tells you there's at least a few thousand $$ in "breathing" room even on the boatshow special prices. To me it was worth it not having to deal with selling myself--I'm just not into the selling things personally, though I recognize that probably costs me a few $$. We found the brokers VERY willing to work with us--not only the trade-in thing, but doing the financing, at-cost help with addt'l options, even down to finding someone to do the graphics for her name! As a sign of their patience, we didn't actually close on the boat until the following Spring, some 4 months after I wrote the initial check for the "hold" deposit. But in any case, my best advice is enjoy the shopping process!! We had a great time over quite a few weekends visiting brokerages in the weeks following the Annapolis show...spend a nice Fall Saturday without the crowds really checking the boat(s) out, talk about it over dinner somewhere...it's a fun and exciting time. Fair winds, Bill "Ngemelis"
nada.com
I don't know where NADA gets its info from but the prices they come up with on used sailboats bear very little resemblance to real market prices.
I don't know where NADA gets its info from but the prices they come up with on used sailboats bear very little resemblance to real market prices.
They deal
Work one dealer against the next for the best price! Get a 32 or 33 then you would want to move up as soon!
Work one dealer against the next for the best price! Get a 32 or 33 then you would want to move up as soon!
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